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  1. #1

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    Default Big Twin engine run stand

    I've wanted to build one of these for a while. I am trying to figure out the best way to do this. Has anybody done this that is willing to share their experience/information?

    My buddy recently picked up a fairly cherry 79 80" Shovel and it is electric and kick start. We will be building it the usual 1.5" open belt primary that we like to use, kick only.

    Then I started thinking about this. The inner primary, clutch basket, primary chain and electric starter coming off this bike could maybe be used to build an engine run stand.

    But the more I think about this setup, I don't know if it is ideal. For one, It will require an entire transmission dedicated to this run stand. Or at least, a case with a mainshaft for the clutch basket to attach to.

    Also, It looks like the later style cast primary covers used in electric start applications have a much different (bigger) attachment point on the engine case.

    I want to build something that can easily accommodate any of the big twins: Flats, Knuckles, Pans & Shovels......

    This later style cast primary off of this cone shovel looks like it would only work with the cone shovel, because it has the larger diameter 4 bolt attachment point on the engine case, versus the smaller diameter 3 bolt attachment system of the Flats, Knucks and Pans.

    Flat, Knuck, Pan and I assume Slab Shovels primary attachment points:



    Cone Shovel style:



    This video doesn't show details on the run stand, but it seems like something I'd like to build. They aren't using a primary cover here to build their run stand so that tells me something Really wish I could see more of how they built this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAafhpwl9RU


    It looks like maybe they have bolts attaching a chain sprocket to a belt pulley. Again, can't see details here so I don't know. Maybe this is so they could swap between tapered shaft like this flatty uses and splined shaft like the later BTs use. Seems like it would be easier to just have two belt pulleys for that, one for taper main and another for splined main and eliminate the bolted on sprocket affair:



    Again, can't tell much from the video, but this looks like a clutch basket from a BT with a starter ring gear around it?


    Maybe I could get a cheap repop mainshaft, fixture it with a pillow block bearing on each side, slap an old 3 finger clutch hub in it and that would eliminate the need to have an entire trans tied up in this test stand???

    Can anybody tell what starter they're using in this video?
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 10-25-2022 at 8:45 PM.

  2. #2

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    And another video by the same kats:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz-4Fc5QrD4

    You can kind of see the whole stand a little better in this video, but I can't tell how the clutch basket is mounted? It would have to be on a bearing of some sort but I can't tell what they've done here.

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    My run stand was a '76 FXE, belt primary drive and kick start. Sometimes fitting exhaust was a problem, but I have a big pile of old pipes. But I sold that bike.

    Jim

  4. #4

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    An entire motorcycle?!? Yeah I just want to build a stand that is relatively simple and has electric start like those guys. I kick all my bikes once they're dialed in

    Can't believe no-one here has built something like this.

  5. #5

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    I made one out of scrap parts. Works great for heat cycles, fixing oil leaks, setting timing, checking charge system. Tried for an hour to upload pics. Was unsuccessful

  6. #6

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    Damn! I really would love to see what you have made. What are you using to share pics? I use Imgur to host them, then I can include them in forum posts easily.

    Can you email pics to me? I will upload them to my Imgur account and post them in here??? I will PM you my email address.

  7. #7

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    FUCK! When I click on "Private Message" after clicking on your handle, it just dumps me off at your profile page.

    If you would please, email the pics and I will share them in this thread.
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 10-28-2022 at 6:00 PM.

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    Softail frames have room and while I've not used this one (yet) as a run stand it does other tasks nicely. To be a run stand all it needs is a gearbox and primary but I've nothing to run on a stand at the moment. I hang dummy fuel tanks from medical IV posts (riding mower tanks work well) to run bikes without the fuel tank installed and that would work great for a run stand too. I'd leave the IV pole freestanding so ya can use it for a variety of shop tasks. Any suitable oil bag would do at any location where gravity feed works. Something easy to rinse out with solvent would be best, mounted for rapid removal and install.

    It rotates, rolls on its own wheels or on an engine stand and required no precision work to make.

    http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52133
    Last edited by farmall; 10-28-2022 at 5:35 PM.

  9. #9

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    Very slick Farmall! Mind if we post your pics in this thread as well??


    Whoremonger and Farmall, thank you both for sharing!!

    Here are the pictures of Whoremonger's test stand:








    I have a transmission mainshaft, a clutch basket, pressure plate and hub with beaings I'm hoping to make work in place of an entire transmission. I'm going to cut spacers to go under the pressure plate in place of clutches. I think I can get away without having an entire trans because all I need is the mainshaft for the clutch basket to attach to.

    My plan is to measure the extra mainshaft once it arrives and fixture it on either end with pillow block bearings to support it.

    Possible pillow block mounting points:




    Pillow block bearing:

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    Should be fine with the light loads involved.

    How do you plan to mount a starter motor? Using an inner primary section concentric with your pillar blocked custom shaft would control the starter-mainshaft center distance and offset vs fiddling.

    You could use for example the trans side of an inner primary cover (any suitable year including Twin Cam so long as it used a Denso starter) with a sealed bearing of your preference as one pillar block which also sets the distance between starter motor and mainshaft. Used common later inner primaries go around fifty bucks via Ebay and would save far more work than the pocket change they cost. Their bolt holes for a gearbox could mount to a plain support instead and if you make your device with a base that bolts to your preference of HD transmission mounts you could use it to bolt in then start any engine in any suitable frame. (Milled slots make life adjustable.)

    HD starters use the gearbox ear to locate the starter as it's between starter and inner primary cover so a simple spacer solves that.

    One can use early five speed gearbox cases with later Denso starters by boring the small hole to fit and it is not a locating hole so that can be done quick and dirty with a die grinder if needed but a mill is tidier.

    Other expedient run stands use car starters and flex plates with simple hubs (cut off the end of the crankshaft the flex plate mounts on and there's your hub blank) with starter bolted to mount of choice but that's bulky and without a guard, dangerous.

    Here's a tidy Fab Kevin mobile test stand with the mechanism out of the way below the engine. I'd use casters over wheels and if on rough surfaces scaffolding casters work a treat. (I use a set on my Migmaster 250 welding cart which is now MUCH nicer to roll on any surface.)

    https://www.fabkevin.com/fkwp/wp-con...6/HPIM3403.jpg
    Last edited by farmall; 10-29-2022 at 10:48 AM.

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    Years ago, Dragonman use to sell these test stands ...
    Bet the one he's using in this video was built by him 40+ years ago ...
    Last edited by Dragstews; 10-29-2022 at 2:04 PM.

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    Steel isn't horribly expensive but for heavy stock I hunt existing industrial carts and racks for my steel stash.

    That Dragonman stand could be fabbed from whatever is handy to save a buck like round pipe vertical legs. The slick part is the moveable sled to adjust chain tension with the "mainshaft" being common round stock. Steel isn't horribly expensive but for cheaper stock I hunt existing industrial carts and racks, preferably rolling stock because everything should be easy to remove for shop cleaning and reconfiguration. Adjustable feet are easy to make from heavy allthread (the good industrial stuff, I get mine from my local hydraulic shop where it's cheap) nuts and washers.

    Existing carts useful for stands, tables (you can take two bases and use the second as a shelf, what to cut will be obvious) and tool box bases are
    "U-boat" style platform carts/dollies (I use both terms searching because I want more of them) are outstanding as shop carts in either narrow or wide forms. Since you may not be slamming your shop carts on and off trucks at a loading dock you can pull the bolts holding the fixed center wheels then save them for other projects if you want the cart to move in any direction. They turn up on Fecesbook and Crotchlist often. I'm cheap so I give about 80 for them but I'd pay more without whining.

    https://www.google.com/search?client...&bih=912&dpr=1

    Wheels make it easy to move much more than motorbikes. U-boat carts (picture a periscope in a WWII movie for how their uprights got their name) are handy for moving anything that fits (the uprights lift off if desired). The "shit you don't feel like doing" list gets less horrible with everything on wheels, none of which should be pneumatic because pneumatic tires at that size only exist to save (the manufacturer) money on materials. Scaffold caster wheels are ideal and easy to clean up if ya score a pile used.

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    If using H-D parts, a five speed splined shaft, clutch hub, and shell would be easiest to mount on pillow bearings. For a starter, the late '80s - '00s XL starter could be mounted on a vertical plate, no jackshaft or outer support bearing needed. The gear is compatible with the big twin 66T starter ring gears. That would allow a belt drive, no inner primary, etc.If you make a provision for the mainshaft to move axially, that would allow you to adjust for any motor sprocket/ pulley location from 45s through twinkies.

    As far as repurposing industrial cast-offs, a bread delivery cart has about the right footprint, and castors. Just have to shorten it.

    Jim

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    Damn good idea using the Sporty starter (big twins should have used a similar setup).

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Damn good idea using the Sporty starter (big twins should have used a similar setup).
    The newest big twins do use an XL style starter.

    Jim

  16. #16

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    These things always kind of just build themselves once ya get going. I had an idea in my head when starting, but it's already taken a different direction than what I had envisioned.

    I am using the inner and outer primary, clutch drum and starter setup off of a '79 Shovelhead. It's just what I ended up with after trading some stuff to a buddy.

    Trans mainshaft fixtured with pillow block bearings:



    Plates made to sit at the bottom of the clutch hub fingers:




    Next in goes the spacers from round tubing and some washers on top to spread the load:





    Here the mainshaft is bolted into the clutch drum and clutch hub. You can also see the little Plates I made to sit at the bottom of the clutch finger studs:



    I ended up taking a piece of chain from a transfer case I rebuilt a few years ago and adding it to the plates for additional strength and stability:




    Here is the whole assembly together that mimics a clutch stack for our purposes of a test stand:




    Throw on the release disc and a few washers:




    Finally, Put the nuts on:




    Here's the whole assembly that will take the place of an entire transmission:




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    If the pillar blocks mount to a plate which mimics a stock transmission plate that makes your unit portable and transferrable between motorcycles.

  18. #18

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    Here's the finished product guys.

    This is basically my adaptation of Whoremonger's stand.

    I made a plate to support the back of the starter to prevent the primary from flexing around and that is not in the video, but hopefully if anyone else wants to build something like this, this video might help.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZOPmDk4w8U

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDeeZ View Post
    Here's the finished product guys.

    This is basically my adaptation of Whoremonger's stand.

    I made a plate to support the back of the starter to prevent the primary from flexing around and that is not in the video, but hopefully if anyone else wants to build something like this, this video might help.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZOPmDk4w8U
    Nice job!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardD View Post
    Nice job!
    Thanks man!

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