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  1. #1
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    Default Satan Shovel saga continues...

    Alright boys, Im not out of the weeds yet with this possessed shovel but we're getting close. This might be another long winded one because of a slight recap.

    Last month a few of you guys helped me figure out the PO put the wrong pitch cam in my 75. I ended up replacing & shimming it with the correct Andrews J cam. Stock tappets, blocks, and pushrods. Removed whatever rocker arms the guy put in it to work with the evo oiling system and rebuilt & shimmed them back to completely stock rocker boxes. After adjusting everything and timing it she started right up first kick so I started dialing in the carb. Side note: I was getting it ready for GGR and spent about 2 days tuning it. It was running fine at idle, has good compression, just runs like shit on top end.

    The problem I'm running into is its running rich with a 60/295 jet setup on a super e. Yes that's correct, absolutely drenches the plugs within 5 minutes. I have also tried more than one super e with different setups, same result. I somehow rode it to GA from Myrtle Beach that way and went through 4 sets of spark plugs on the way. Im not sure if it could be the coil, I've tried 2 different coils. They are 3.9 OHM and im running points ign. My first plan of action is to replace that with a 2 OHM coil in two weeks when I get home from work.

    At this point I've exhausted everything I have in my mental toolbox with what it could be. I dropped the bike off with a reputable guy while I have been on the road for work but the guy has yet to look at it so I'm going to have to collect it and figure it out myself once again when I get back home
    Last edited by Sportycoat1100; 10-25-2022 at 11:27 AM.

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    1) Do a compression test, cold and warm.
    2) Do a leak check if you have the tester, again cold and warm.
    3) I have my doubts that it does the same thing with more than one carb. But the float level and the function of the accelerator pump circuit should be looked at. Either can cause a rich condition.
    4) If it does indeed do the exact same thing with more than one carb, that would indicate an ignition problem. By the way, you need a 5 ohm coil if you have points.
    5) Ignition timing and the condition of the advance unit need to be verified.
    6) What type tappet, solid or hydraulic? How is the fit in the tappet block bores? How are the tappets adjusted?

    Jim

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    Doing the compression and leak down at warm temps is one thing I haven't done, only at cold temps. I'll have to do both warm once I have the bike in hand.
    For some reason I was under the impression that less OHM created a hotter spark. Now it makes me wonder if my coil is the problem. I have tried 2 different coils but I know 100% that they are not 5 OHM. Could that be a symptom of it running rich since technically it's a weak spark but just enough for it to fire and run?

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    The reason that 5 ohm coils are specified for points systems is that using a lower ohm coil will burn the point contacts. A 3 ohm coil, for instance, will work for a short time, until the points degrade.

    There may be something else going on with the ignition. Retarded timing and/or a worn out advance unit can cause sooty plugs. Bad plug wires or a poor switched circuit supplying the coil could also cause problems.

    If you have done cold compression and leak checks, what were the results?

    And what about the tappet condition and adjustment?

    Jim

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    Sorry about that, I was in a bit of a rush this morning and forgot to answer those.
    I can’t remember for sure but I know I was around 120 front cylinder and a tad less on the rear. As far as the leak down I’m going to have to get a tester to tell 100% what it is. I installed hyd tappets and cleaned and inspected them before install and everything was in good condition. I set them to the point where the spring was collapsing and then 23 flats. They also were not pumped up with oil so not sure if that would play a part. The advance unit is brand new as well as the points and I have tried another set of both that is also new. When I took it to GA it was running great, it would just skip every once in a while on top end. I’m pretty sure that the timing was spot on as well. From trial and error I think I’ve gotten that down but I could be wrong. Maybe I’m just that bad at tuning a shovel
    Last edited by Sportycoat1100; 10-26-2022 at 7:04 AM.

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    If you have a 60 main jet in it, per your first post, yes, you may be that bad at tuning. But there are those here with the experience and willingness to walk you through it, if you are open to suggestions. With a Super E (or B) on a 74 or 80 cu.in. shovel motor, where you live, the main jet should be 66 - 70, if the carb and the motor are in good shape. Other parts of the country may have different tuning results.

    Don't neglect the primary side of the ignition on an older bike. Bad switches, bad breakers (my own experience) and bad wiring can play havoc with the delivery of a good spark.

    Your plug gap could be anything from .030 - .040, depending on the coil and wires you are using.

    For your hydraulic tappets, try the "dry" method of adjustment. I find it FAR more reliable for shovel tappets. Extend the pushrod until the tappet plunger is fully down. Find the exact point where the plunger comes off its bottom. Shorten the pushrod 1 1/2 turns. You need not empty the tappet of oil in order to do this. I extend the pushrod 2 turns at a time and allow the tappet to bleed off, until the pushrod fails to go slack. Old or worn tappets will function just fine using this adjustment method. I have used it on dozens and dozens of shovels with complete success.

    Jim

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    I’m starting to believe I don’t have a green thumb with this thing anymore. I’ll see what the correct coil and redoing the pushrods with the dry method will produce.
    If that offer still stands I might have to bring the whole bike up your way? I’ve had multiple guys that were supposed to at least listen to it but for the most part they hoard it up in their shop and never touch it and I have to go collect it in the same state that I left it only to go through the motions myself with the same result

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    I have been running 3 ohm coils on my pan-shovel and knuckle for years . Never had points burn out. Iíve always heard the opposite . 5 ohm coils were for electronic ignitions. If heís running a .60 main jet that is way too small or a typo. .68-.70 is fine.
    By- pass the switch and breakers with a jumper wire from the battery directly to the battery side of the coil with a way to quickly disconnect, such as bullet connectors. Unplug to turn off . Canít leave them plugged in when the bike is not running or it will burn out your coil. This will isolate 1/2 the electrical system and help with troubleshooting .
    What brand coil are you using ?
    Replace the ignition wires with a known good set if available.
    Make one change only at a time before testing.
    Just my 2 cents.
    JB is the pro , Iím just telling you my experience.
    Last edited by 47str8leg; 11-01-2022 at 5:29 PM.

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    A 60 main jet is correct. And yes it is too small but I was still fouling plugs with a 60 main. I can’t remember the brand coil exactly I’ll have to check when I get the chance. I just got a call from my buddy who I left it with and he said it holds 90lbs as long as you’d like for the leak down. He says he doesn’t think it’s the rings but that it’s an over oiling issue. The only thing that I can think of is the s&s oil pump that I put on it. The check ball will also not seat at random times. It has no rhyme or reason when it does it because I rode 400 miles and not a drop. The next morning though it puked the whole oil bag out from the breather. I have a stock Harley oil pump at the house I’m going to try to replace it with once I get home

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