lifter block screws cone shovel

[flatman]

Please school me on cone shovel lifter base screws. Slotted head and if so, thread and years. Phillips head and if so, threads and years. Those with the tiny hex on top, thread size and years. Also when did Harley (cone shovel) switch head bolts from hex to twelve point. could care less about allen heads on lifter bases or headbolts, thanks in advance

[JBinNC]

No straight or phillips screws on shovels to my (imperfect) knowledge. Six point hex screws, 1/4-24, for the tappet blocks with the countersunk holes. That is through '76 or early '77 I think. Twelve point 1/4-20 screws from there to '84, for the tappet blocks with spot faced holes.

There are "special" screws to allow the tappet blocks to be installed on earlier or later cases, as the case may be.

Jim

[Dragstews]

On the 76 up tapet blocks it's a good idea to use alinement pins ...

[flatman]

Thanks for the response guys. Jb you are saying you can buy special slotted screws for the 77 and up? Also what about the head bolts, thanks guys

[JBinNC]

Head bolts from H-D were all six point hex head. There was a change from a bolt with a separate washer to a washer head (one piece) bolt around '79.
The twelve point head bolts are from S&S or other aftermarket.

I don't know if you will find a slotted head screw for the tappet blocks in 1/4-20. But Colony does have several styles.

Jim

[flatman]

thanks for the replys I do appreciate it

[Whoremonger]

If in fact your motor does have 1/4 24 screws make sure thats what you get from where ever you source them. Very easy to confuse them with 1/4 20. Use a thread gage if possible to confirm

[flatman]

jb colony does indeed sell 1/4 x 20 slotted head lifter base screws. listed as special for earlier lifter bases on aftermarket cases. Stock harley shovel case tappet base screws are 1/4 x 20 are they not? i assume the 1/4 x 24 are earlier knuck flattys and pans? also are the 77 and up 6 point headbolts with built in washer a direct bolt in for all shovels or is this a kind of 80 inch thing or do they work for either. sorry not trying to beat a dead horse just trying to order the right parts. i am not real versed in shovelhead stuff. thanks in advance

[JBinNC]

Tappet block screws were 1/4-24 in shovel cases through '76 or -77, as I said earlier. That was a carryover, like many other features, from the pan design. The cam cover screws on the generator shovels were also 1/4-24. When the cone motor came out in '70, they changed the cam cover screws to 1/4-20, but left the tappet block screws at 1/4-24. The oil pump screws (or studs) got the same treatment: 1/4-24 up to '76 or '77. Go figure; H-D always did wierd stuff like that.

The head bolts will all interchange on shovels, and back to pans for that matter. I personally have no preference, either for the six point bolt with separate washer, or the washer-head bolt. You can often find these at swap meets. I was pawing through a box of them at Denton two weeks ago. They are 2 1/4" long, if memory serves, and you should not try to substitute a different length.

Jim

[flatman]

Shit. got the wrong ones. Arrived today 1/2 x 20 lifter base screws in both slotted and hex head. So I got to order the 1/4 x 24 hex (6 hex) screws for the early shovel. Even tho they are not right am I correct in assuming the pan and knuckle 1/4 x 24 screw will fit? I know the thread is correct but not sure about the taper? Thanks again your guys knowledge is truly helpful

[JBinNC]

It would help to mention the year motor case you are working with.

Jim

[JBinNC]

For the tappet blocks with countersunk holes, any of the screws with the matching taper will fit, from the knucks through the mid-'70s shovels. I see that you are trying to get a certain look, and so you have several choices. Just don't use a tapered screw in a late model tappet block, or vice-versa, you may end up breaking a corner off the tappet block. Happens all the time.

Jim

[flatman]

I have both a 1970 shovel and a 1975 I am in the process of gathering up hardware for. And now for another question. I know the taper on the lifter screws is shallower than the steeper taper on the cam cover screws of knucks and pans, but was wondering (except for length) if the 1/4 x 24 lifter base screws are the same as the tranny lid (ratchet lid tranny) for taper and thread. Sorry to be a pain, but thanks for the replies.

[JBinNC]

Good question, and I think the taper is the same, tappet block and transmission top.

You need one of the old repop knuck/pan/45 parts manuals, reprinted many, many times. All the hardware is in there, and most of it is described in the schedule at the back of the book.

Jim

[flatman]

Thanks, gotta find a tranny lid and case and see if the 45 lifter body screw, screws in the tranny and if the taper fits the lid. Next up case bolts. LOL thanks again for the help.

[Dragstews]

Photo below shows the first year of the cone motors (1970) ..
It came from the factory with the old oddball 1/4X24 threads ... (Cam cover bolts, lifter block bolts and oil pump bolts was 1/4X24)



But, didn't stay that way ...
Somewhere down though it's life the threads got tapped to the 1/4X20 threads ...



Okay ... Popped off the cam cover and took a look at the numbers casted in on the back wall of the case ...

The right side motor case may not be the early first year cone motor...
What got me thinking was seeing the threads looking so good for 1/4X20...
If indeed they have been retapped the threads would have looked like a train wreck down the hole ... These didn't have that look ...

So.... Something smells fishy in Denmark and it's not the fish !!

Another clue to this puzzle was seeing a end oiler pinion shaft and cam cover in play ... They didn't come on line till 1973 ...

Motor case ID numbers ends with HO ... Casting numbers inside the cam chest says it a 1977 ...

Oh Boy ...

[JBinNC]

Photo below shows the first year of the cone motors (1970) ..
It came from the factory with the old oddball 1/4X24 threads ... (Cam cover bolts, lifter block bolts and oil pump bolts was 1/4X24)



But, didn't stay that way ...
Somewhere down though it's life the threads got tapped to the 1/4X20 threads ...



Okay ... Popped off the cam cover and took a look at the numbers casted in on the back wall of the case ...

The right side motor case may not be the early first year cone motor...
What got me thinking was seeing the threads looking so good for 1/4X20...
If indeed they have been retapped the threads would have looked like a train wreck down the hole ... These didn't have that look ...

So.... Something smells fishy in Denmark and it's not the fish !!

Another clue to this puzzle was seeing a end oiler pinion shaft and cam cover in play ... They didn't come on line till 1973 ...

Motor case ID numbers ends with HO ... Casting numbers inside the cam chest says it a 1977 ...

Oh Boy ...

May be a factory replacement case. Yeah, let's go with that.

I rebuilt a '73 FL motor last year. Factory cases from 1986. Completely legit.

Jim