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  1. #1

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    Oct 2019
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    Default HELP! Pre unit kickstart problem, not engaging

    hi again guys,

    thanks to all that helped last time, the bike got started and it fuckin rips. that said almost as soon as it got started the fucking kickstart started playing up and now i can't kick it. it feels like it's just not engaging with anything inside, it pushes down way too easy. it ratchets back up fine, but isn't actually turning anything inside. i'm guessing it's something with the clutch because it won't pull in at all. with the bike in gear kicking it over turns the motor, but continues to do so even when i pull the clutch in. perhaps the pushrod is jammed in idk, can't seem to find what that's meant to look like to compare mine.

    it's a '56 tr6 (not t110 as my last post said) with appropriate gearbox, clutch etc, all stock stuff.

    that's about all the info i can think of for now but please help it's driving me mad i've had this bike for like 2 months and so far i've done about 500 yards 😩

    thanks everyone

  2. #2
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    This may be helpful;

    Triumph Workshop Instruction Manual, 1956 - 1962; includes Trophy TR6,

    http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/R...-62Triumph.pdf


    Triumph Parts Book;

    1956 Triumph Twins

    https://partsbooks.britishonly.com/#PostWar


    You say, "now i can't kick it", then, "it feels like it's just not engaging with anything inside", yet, "kicking it over turns the motor"... so you can kick it, and the kicker is turning over the motor.

    Sounds like the clutch plates are stuck together. For that try putting it in 4th gear, then roll it with the clutch in to see if it will break them free... disassembly and cleaning the plates may be required. What oil in the primary?

    The kicking over easy, if it is turning over the engine, is another thing.
    Did you check the compression after your short rip?
    Pull the plugs to confirm the engine is turning over while kicking it... or raise the back wheel and turn over the engine by turning the rear wheel with trans in 4th gear. Check compression - maybe valves need adjustment - could be too tight clearance preventing them from fully closing.

  3. #3

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    yes possibly a confusing description. what i mean is in neutral the it kicks way too easy, i can push the kicker down with my hand no problem and it doesn't feel as though it's engaging with anything. however in gear with the rear wheel suspended the motor and wheel turn when i push the kicker, still with my hand but it's harder to push.

    any way i'll try the 4th gear thing, see if that helps. if nothing i'll open the primary and check out the clutch plates.

    couldn't tell you what oil is in the primary tbh, it's a new acquisition, i was going to change oils soon. what would you use in the primary, while we're at it?

    thanks

  4. #4
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    Several possibilities but all will require pulling the primary cover & outer timing cover, since the bike is new to you might as well get your feet wet anyway.

    It could be:
    A) On either end the nuts fell off or loosened. Look at the illustrated parts breakdown in the factory parts book. (WHat? you dont have one? Why not?) On either end is a big nut and often a lock tab. its common for these to loosen or fall off.

    B) Clutch is fubar. These need frequent services anyway, so use NEW springs (3 or 4 spring clutch? The springs DONT interchange!) Theres a bit of art to servicing these, but not hard if you do your research. While in there check the slots for the clutch plates, the plain steel plates, the 20 barrel bearings and the clutch shock absorber (Early ones had a spring on the engine mainshaft, later use a center hub spider and bisquits on the clutch and trans mainshaft)

    C) Something going on with Kicker Pawl, not unheard of. If you need bits inside that trans cover, I might be able to help. Might as well look carefully at the return spring for the kicker while in there. Best to always have a spare on hand, sooner or later you will need to replace it.

    As well, good time to change fluids, replace seals, and use a new gasket, clean up carefully gasket surfaces. A good treatment for the gaskets is I use Copper coat. Spray both sides liberally, let dry and repeat a few times. Then sometimes I use Blue Hylomar sparingly as well. It never hardens unlike YamaBond or 3bond. and can dress it up and often reuse it when pulling a cover.

    For the trannies I sometimes use a multigrade thats compatible with bronze bushes (Some will eat your bushings so CHECK!) but mono grades work well, hypoid climbing gear lube is a plus! But dont get carried away as frequent GB oil changes are the norm, and look at a good vent option as they create moisture and turns the oil to mocha.

    For primaries, for keepers I like a dry belt drive myself for many reasons. But if running a chain primary, FORD ATF-Type F is your friend. Works great on clutches and good lube properties. There is some Ag product fluids that are same rating, but I dont have any specific ones to recomend. I got a 5 gallon bucket recently but still evaluatiing but got it thru my local farm & feed store. HD folks argue this all day long but HD Sport lube is Ford Type F just relabeled for the Do-Rag crowd. I run Type F in my sportsters and Buells as well.

  5. #5

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    sticking clutch plates! i cleaned them off, lubed them up and they're just as they were before.
    next issue is adjustment, it takes almost the entire lever release to get going so stalling and over revving is far too easy. any suggestions?

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by leodavut View Post
    next issue is adjustment, it takes almost the entire lever release to get going so stalling and over revving is far too easy. any suggestions?
    Yes, this one is easy, READ the MANUAL! Its well written, clear, concise and why you always start with the manual and then ask questions.

  7. #7

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    i consulted the manual which didn't expand beyond cable adjustment and pushrod adjustment. what it did show me however is that my pushrod adjustment screw is missing the locknut and is well and truly stuck in position... any idea how to get that out? i'm guessing best just to replace the whole section... would new clutch springs help remedy the issue as well?
    thanks

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    i consulted the manual which didn't expand beyond cable adjustment and pushrod adjustment.
    See page 91 of the manual... clutch pushrod adjustment, cable adjustment, and clutch plate/clutch springs adjustment.

    http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/R...-62Triumph.pdf

    Can you use PB Blaster or similar product to release seized threads...
    perhaps it was locked there with Loctite - heat will be needed to break that bond.

  9. #9
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    TNC is correct, both on the specifics of the manual, and probably about the loctite. Blue is what should be used for stuff you might want to someday remove, and red is for semi-permanent, You can disable the red by using a small propane torch and heating the screw to just over 200degF will cook off any stuck loctite. Bet because someone lost the lock nut, they used Loctite. PB Blaster, Kroil, or other penetrating oils might be all needed.
    I have several impact drivers, sometimes a fresh bit with a good fit (Flat or Phillips) and a good sharp rap with a hammer will usually loosen any screw thats stuck. (Harbor freight has them, about 6-7 inches long, cylinder with a twist piston inside,)

    Is it a 3 or 4 spring clutch? Springs are a different topic, most old triumphs the clutch springs are shot. Its a time change item depending on mileage, So a good idea to start with new, but a well maintained bike they will last you for many years. Adjusting and truing the pressure plate for a clean and even lift with no wobble is hard to explain, Might be some youtube videos, but the idea is when setting up a clutch, when clutch is pulled, the plate lifts clean-even and no wobble,

    Its kind of beyond this forum how to rebuild a clutch properly other than general tips,, But again, I am sure there is videos on this, or I have never bought any, But I understand there is several good ones on engine rebuilds, trannies and other Triumph tech.

    One other note, While primary is off, check to see if the engine mainshaft oil seal is leaking oil into the primary, and another benefit of using Tyle F auto trans fluid is you can see instantly if your engine is spooging oil into the primary. But be advised there is no true oil seal on back of clutch and inside Primary cover. The trans has a mainshaft oil seal for the tranny, (Worth checking it as well for leaks) BUt where the mainshaft enters the primary, all thats there is a fibre disc thing, It WILL ALWAYS leak a bit out of that unless a conversion to run a seal like the unit models do, OR- You switch to a dry Belt drive.

    But, if you follow the manual, and all your parts are dialed in, The clutch should work pretty well. Not as good as a Asian bike or Modern Harley, but decent.

    *Finally, you CANNOT ride a British vintage bike like a modern, the style of riding and HOW you use a vintage clutch is way different than a modern bike. Until you learn how to baby and take care of a vintage clutch, you will be rebuilding them a lot. You dont slip them like a modern Clutch and you set them up for a good grip, but its IN & OUT, no slipping them on a hill or stop.

  10. #10
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    This may be of interest, though not pre-unit specific:

    Vintage Technical Tips & Tricks

    https://www.triumphrat.net/forums/vi...ps-tricks.104/

  11. #11

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    "blue" and "red" loctite is kind of a gross oversimplification of Loctites product range of hundreds of different compounds, but ok.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sameaslastyear View Post
    "blue" and "red" loctite is kind of a gross oversimplification of Loctites product range of hundreds of different compounds, but ok.
    Say what? Fair enough, you want to spin the thread into a discussion about a tech discussion on Loctite products, write one up in the tech section. You are right, theres a lot of info and different products, and since most people dont know any better. HOW to use them. You CAN order their tech manual, which I did years ago at a shop since it didnt occur to some of the Assy staff you actually have to remove oil and grease before using the stuff, and me telling them wasnt going to fly, so never overlook tech data.
    BUT if you are the Loctite guru, show us all how its done, Write a tech post. Got anything to add to Triumph clutches? *You know, the OPs question...?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougtheinternetannoyance123 View Post
    Say what? Fair enough, you want to spin the thread into a discussion about a tech discussion on Loctite products, write one up in the tech section. You are right, theres a lot of info and different products, and since most people dont know any better. HOW to use them. You CAN order their tech manual, which I did years ago at a shop since it didnt occur to some of the Assy staff you actually have to remove oil and grease before using the stuff, and me telling them wasnt going to fly, so never overlook tech data.
    BUT if you are the Loctite guru, show us all how its done, Write a tech post. Got anything to add to Triumph clutches? *You know, the OPs question...?
    No, I'm no loctite guru, just up for annoying the online annoyance a bit maybe loctite is called "blue" or "red" in the U.S? Here they go by boring names like 577 for thread sealer(orange goop), 290 for wicking thread locker(green fluid), 648 for cylindrical fastening(also green fluid just like 290 but extremely different).
    Only tip i got for OP is to tear everything down and inspect. Gearbox AND clutch. No other way when Hamfist and friends have been wrecking it before. And relax a bit. Its just old junk.

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