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Thread: Victim or Not?

  1. #1
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    Default Victim or Not?

    This is a traffic stop. Body cam shows the pertinent parts.

    Is the individual being stopped a victim of a asshole cop, working his way through anger management and micropenis issues by abusing the general public and his position as a police officer?

    Or, is the individual in the vehicle being a primadonna ahole and refusing to comply with a reasonable request by a police officer who is just trying to do his job and keep the public safe??




    Victim or not, and why?

  2. #2

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    I think this happened in 2019? They pulled him over for no plate but he had one of those new car paper ones in his back window. I saw a video where 2 guys walking down the sidewalk at night with flashlights in texas getting arrested. They need to end qualified immunity IMHO

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    Ask yourself, would this have happened if he had complied? Cops request this drill to protect themselves, make 'em nervous and you'll get a stressed response. Would George Floyd be dead if he'd complied? Never mind the rights and wrongs when you are pissing off nervous people with guns.
    It pains me to see a serving member of the military abused. But he must ask himself, what happens if he gives an order and it is refused? What if someone he is taking prisoner starts arguing?
    Sure, go get hoity-toity and argue , but the response from the Cops will be predictable, and yes, some of them can be real assholes.

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    Sgt Major of the Army says the soldier exemplified the standards and conduct of our military. Good enough for me.

    The police cannot just order you around without reason and they were not responding to his requests for clarity.

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    I thought the cops said they would end his military career if he complained? If its true fuck those assholes

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    I've dealt with military and civilian cops and much prefer the military, even the few dicks I met during my career.

    America is a nation which bitterly resents professionalism while paying lip service to it. End qualified immunity and the insurance companies will require reasonable codes of conduct or not write policies.

    Cop was fired for his bullshit BTW.

    BTW uniform worship, all of it, needs to end. Even well-meant bootlicking remains bootlicking.

  7. #7

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    You can tell what a fuckhole a country is by the way roadside inspections are being done. At gunpoint with shouting is even worse than third world shitholes I've visited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sameaslastyear View Post
    You can tell what a fuckhole a country is by the way roadside inspections are being done. At gunpoint with shouting is even worse than third world shitholes I've visited.
    Ha, ha, my father got arrested in Sweden . Yeah, they were real polite, they were also big and armed.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    Ha, ha, my father got arrested in Sweden . Yeah, they were real polite, they were also big and armed.
    I trained at the same gym as the squad heavies in gothenburg for a few years, one generation younger than your old man's friends i guess. Real nice guys, but not to be messed with. Big, ripped guys all of them.
    Years later in a smaller town i trained at the same place as two officers who got me on a DUI, all good and fair game, i fucked up and i knew it. Used to joke about how great it was that they got me back on bicycles again..!

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    Officers says, "felony traffic stop" I was taught to say "yes sir", "no sire" to a police officer and to comply. Had this happen to me years ago. Ended well with the officer apologizing. This guy made himself a victim. In the words of the officer, "you made this way more difficult then it needed to be." End of story.
    Last edited by Fetch; 04-15-2021 at 8:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetch View Post
    Officers says, "felony traffic stop" I was taught to say "yes sir", "no sire" to a police officer and to comply. Had this happen to me years ago. Ended well with the officer apologizing. This guy made himself a victim. In the words of the officer, "you made this way more difficult then it needed to be." End of story.
    I tend to agree..


    I don't like the "Felony Stop" unless there was a felony suspected. But, the driver had no way of knowing the motivations of the cops and I don't either. If it was over a license plate? That isn't a felony.

    I also don't like the conflicting instructions. (Often screamed at a pitch only audible to bats and dogs.) Above all things, Police officers should communicate clearly.

    I think there should be disciplinary action in cases like this.

    Even so, the rule is to comply with the cop even if he is a complete ass head. Sue him later.

    Because you don't know what he thinks he's accomplishing with the stop or who he thinks he's stopping. Particularly with no tag visible. He literally may be looking for a spree shooter, and here you are in a similar vehicle with no way to identify it or you.

    The police have wide latitude when pursuing felony suspects and there is no way of knowing if he exceeded his authority at the moment he initiates the stop. That comes later.

    I don't like the cop, but the Lieutenant isn't a victim. His refusal to obey a lawful order made a bad situation worse, and it could have become much worse.

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    PS: My state is sick of this paper tag in the window thing, and they give you a plastic bag at the DMV for the paper plate and stipulate that it must be placed in the proper location... Regardless.

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    Agreed, tags not clearly visible are an issue for law enforcement. Anything that is out of place brings suspicion and perhaps rightly so. Gives both parties an opportunity to clear the air if nothing is wrong. My stop was due to having a "suspect" vehicle. This was in the late 70's and I had a flat black Pontiac Catalina with blacked out glass and slammed to the ground, kid of rat rod before their was such a thing. Anyway, the stop ended with a frisk and search of the vehicle. Turns out some punk kids stole a set of tires from a gas station, my car looked like what "punks" would be driving and I had a new set of tires on my pile. From their perspective, "I fit the bill". Cool thing is, that stopped turned into a friendship over the years and more then once I got a free pass on a "moving violation". Everyone just needs to chill, both police and public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    PS: My state is sick of this paper tag in the window thing, and they give you a plastic bag at the DMV for the paper plate and stipulate that it must be placed in the proper location... Regardless.
    That's MUCH more intelligent.

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    Unfortunately, there is no way to know how this would have turned out if the guy just pulled over. Probably, being in uniform, he would have be treated okay. At least treated better than you or I.

    I've had plenty of experiences with asshole cops but, in this case, I think this guy created the tense situation by not pulling over. If it escalates to where the cop is using his siren, shit is going to get weird.

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    Ya gotta wonder if he would have even been pulled over at all if he was white. We finally figured that I had to drive the wife's Vette through Tucumcari so we didn't get stopped for a bulb that was never really out!
    Dusty

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterson13 View Post
    Unfortunately, there is no way to know how this would have turned out if the guy just pulled over. Probably, being in uniform, he would have be treated okay. At least treated better than you or I.

    I've had plenty of experiences with asshole cops but, in this case, I think this guy created the tense situation by not pulling over. If it escalates to where the cop is using his siren, shit is going to get weird.
    Again, maybe in shitholes full of psychotic, armed killers. In normal countries, no. We can mess with the police a bit WITHOUT RISKING GETTING SHOT. You shouldn't see it as normal that you risk getting murdered by law enforcement. I had them follow me a few km's once blue lights flashing(i knew they were doing bullshit roadside checks) and hey, i didnt get shot in the face. Was asked why i didnt stop immediately, answered i dont care, im getting burgers and going to work, what's my offence and so on. No guns, no screaming, no laying on the ground with some obese fucking donut jockey on my back.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyDave View Post
    Ya gotta wonder if he would have even been pulled over at all if he was white. We finally figured that I had to drive the wife's Vette through Tucumcari so we didn't get stopped for a bulb that was never really out!
    Dusty
    How the fuck do you see if a guy is black, in a car, at night, from behind? Officers smelled the fried chicken?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sameaslastyear View Post
    Again, maybe in shitholes full of psychotic, armed killers. In normal countries, no. We can mess with the police a bit WITHOUT RISKING GETTING SHOT. You shouldn't see it as normal that you risk getting murdered by law enforcement.
    There's a regional and a local aspect to this. The internet makes the US (and other countries as well, I'm sure) seem like homogeneous little package of citizens and cops.. But in reality, it is a very large place and it is extremely diverse in every way.

    In the US, metro areas and their bedroom communities tend to be very economically stratified, even though they are close in proximity. They are very gentrified in this way. In some cases EXTREMELY so.

    The poor areas are dynamos, spinning off crime and violence.. And they really should be policed tightly and aggressively so disadvantaged people there can remain safe. But they aren't. In application, they are extremely permissive and crime flourishes. In contrast, the economic power of the gentrified areas pays for far better services, safety and quality of life, generally. The crime in these areas is extremely low and they ARE policed aggressively to ensure this remains so.

    These wealthy areas tend to be progressive politically, and they take the attitude that everything is right here and their street must remain safe at all costs. Their school. Their this and their that.. It would be fair to call this their vision of the "American Dream" and it is the privilege they're paying for (literally) with their taxes. But similar police tactics in the poor areas are seen as oppressive and even racist, depending. High crime, limited opportunity and low quality of life in the poor areas are the result of these policies.

    Then.. You toss a cop into the middle of this and it is extremely difficult for them.

    On the one hand, someone loitering about a gated community can expect a police interaction. On the other extreme, that same cop may encounter an armed 13YO gang member strolling around on the other side of town because that is common. They are often attacked. When they arrest someone dangerous, they may be freed without bail. When such a person is adjudicated, they are often released with a relatively light jail sentence, if they are sentenced at all. The implication is that poor people just do a lot of crime and punishing them is unfair. And it is fine if they do crime as long as it remains on their (disadvantaged) side of town.

    This contrast obviously makes it very difficult for police officers.

    In more rural and less gentrified areas, there is a lot more homogeneity in policing and everyone is held to to a much more similar standard and the standards for criminal conduct are much lower. The police are polite, but serious criminal conduct is punished severely and juries won't protect you for bad behavior. They will generally support the police in their interactions with criminals. The result is a much more harsh system of justice and policing that doesn't have to be harsh as often, because everyone is aware of the concrete limits on behavior and their support from the surrounding community.
    Last edited by confab; 04-16-2021 at 7:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    That's MUCH more intelligent.
    I think so, too.. It cuts right through the BS.

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