New system to check VINS

[docmel]

I cut/pasted this from the Pan/Flatty forum. Not my post, Its a good forum, lotsa good info

Cant vouch for accuracy, so do your own research

Something VERY important that came to pass during 2020/2021.

As of January 1, 2021 -- all states are part of the National Motor Vehicle Title Service. There were still a few hold outs until recently.

While title service and the following state issued title like this "were" legit just a few years ago -- they will most likely get kicked out of titling going forward. The reason is that VINs used to only be scanned for theft or salvage record. Now they are scanned for duplicates or never existing numbers

Because all 50 states are now involved . . a lot of stuff will get found very fast as vehicles change hands in coming years.

Numbers that never existed, duplicates, or that have mistakes on a title will result in an inspection . . and pretty much all of these bikes will fail. A tampered VIN is a failed VIN. Doesn't matter if it is historic, it's invalid.

I learned this the hard way earlier this month when I learned some goofball cloned a VIN on one of my bikes and applied for a Pennsylvania title, which invalidated my legal Illinois title and flagged everything because two totally different bikes are carrying the same VIN. I can prove my bike is the original holder and I've had legal title more than a decade. But, even with paperwork from the previous two owners going back to the 90s, paperwork from a legit (big) dealer, an attorney, a VALID original title and a confirmable VIN, I'm staring at 3-6 months to clear it up. All because the system caught this duplicate and noted the difference in vehicles. Just 10 years ago, this would have sailed through without a hitch and likely an insurance company would have noticed before the DMV in the respective states.

So, be very careful even if there is a clean title. The world is very, very different now than it used to be and a lot of the stuff I got away with for the last 30 years is being clamped down on.

Even Vermont has joined the fray and so there's not really anywhere to "clean" titles anymore or deal with these messed up things as easily as we used to.

SO................ I always wondered: if someone used a title service and gave them a VIN, how does one know if the VIN isnt already associated with an active title in another state?

Example: Someone builds a Pan motor, or gets a left bottom end case, and the VIN boss is blank from the parts company they bought it from:
So not to deal with MSO's or PIA to get a state issued VIN, builder or owner just make up a VIN and sends it off to the title company, and WALA, you get the paperwork you need to get the state to issue a title. Or its stolen, it got a new case, and stamped a number

Now I understand VIN checks are done by title companies when one uses them: but how thorough is the check?: Only a theft database, etc? These title companies were great for those that inherit a bike whose title has been lost thru the years, or honest restorers. But frankly, a huge loophole for those not honest

I have to say, its about time there was a natl database of VINs: Ill bet there are a BUNCH of scoot owners out there that might be surprised when they move to another state, etc, go for a new title, and up pops up, "Sorry, that VIN is already being used"

Ouch...................And it would really suck if you bought the bike with the correct title, had it registered for years, rode it for thousands of miles, and then you move and find out all along there are two bikes out there (And it could be more) with the same VIN!

Thats why I always questioned the whole title service thing: Looks like this new database has been in effect for almost 18 months now. Wonder if this database is being screened now for duplicate issued VINs, or a vin is only checked by this new database when a title is applied for?

And how many owners will get nailed by this thinking they had a righteous buy: And title services do cars, boats, RVs, etc

[docmel]

Couldnt find any real info on this database by doing a quick search. Wondering if its a real thing

[confab]

Mass says it's a real thing.. ?

https://www.mass.gov/service-details/national-motor-vehicle-title-information-system-nmvtis

[confab]

[docmel]

So I cheked with a Law Dog on this thing: Yes, its real. It would be a shame if you went to title your build and it comes up an already used or invalid VIN.

We all know there are/was shortcuts that are legal, but lets face it, that was before there was a check on already used VINs in a NATIONAL database.

The DMV in Co is now using that database as standard procedure before new titles are issued

[BuddhahoodVato]

Man a Ton of bikes are going to get smoked, I know some foolios who titled at least 2o out of Back east.

[Whoremonger]

If they are titled already,they should be in the clear, no? Unless they try to resell?

[docmel]

I'm thinking the answer is most likely no, unless its sold to someone else and the VIN has problems when the new owner goes to get the title in thier name

BUT...... Who says a states DMV wont check current issued titles in thier state?

OR................. Who is to say insurance companies wont do the same check on new policy applicants or current customers?

And what sucks, how many current titled owners dont have a clue that thier VIN is a duplicate one issued in another state, or one that never existed. I am not just talking scoots here... Cars, RVs, boats, etc........

Imagine yourself moving to another state, getting your ride titled in the new state and DMV sez, "Opps..Gotta a little bad news for ya".........

And its a national database, not just a specific state one

Hate to say it, this database was bound to happen sooner or later in our computer driven age

[farmall]

Checking more than the minimum requires effort and many DMV don't retain all their info (the reason I ALWAYS get hard copy titles for everything in my hand on the spot, twenty or thirty bucks to do that is so cheap only compulsives who still think that's real money put it off) so checking them all might not happen but best not to rely on that.

Countermeasures include buying bikes/wrecks/frames with obviously clear factory titles then transferring title immediately so you have those in hand. If you can hoard it's silly not to.

Motorcycles are toys. That means there is time to do it all legally and used bike purchase countermeasures include taking VIN to DMV and your sheriff's department to perform a search prior to purchase. Then scan the paperwork as backup AND save the hard copy, preferably in a safe deposit box or other fireproof location.

If you own something you know will be a problem it's only a weekend to strip it for parts then integrate those into a different motorcycle or whatever. Bikes are really just a heap of parts temporarily arranged as a motorcycle.

Imagine yourself moving to another state, getting your ride titled in the new state and DMV sez, "Opps..Gotta a little bad news for ya".........

"Shucks, guess I can't use that frame/cases/serially controlled dildo until we sort this out"
(hauls ass home to disintegrate problematic motorbike immaculately so nothing resembles a chop shop)

Man a Ton of bikes are going to get smoked, I know some foolios who titled at least 2o out of Back east.

Indeed. Lotta Bubbas out there too hardheaded to do it right the first time.

What's funny (funny strange) is if the item is confiscated and you buy it back at auction the state-issued new VIN is good.

It will be interesting to see how the rules affect magistrate titles, abandoned vehicles and theft recoveries. Open ways around the problem of buying in good faith of a vehicle that is not hot but has a duplicate title will dry up but there has to be some legal method of obtaining title to "mystery meat" or the vehicle salvage industry would grind to a halt.