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  1. #1
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    Default So letís talk about Ukraine

    Gonna get bloody, do Ukrainian citizens have the propensity for violence necessary to take on the Goliath? We have such little skin in the game and have thus far reacted with the petulance of a wounded child. Itíll go fast or slow, but either way I donít see Russia coming out of this at a loss.

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    My guess is there are enough people who remember Soviet rule and will fight to the death to prevent it happening again. I don't see this being at all easy for the Russians.

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    Observations:

    1) He appears to be trying to take the whole country.

    I think this is a major, major miscalculation on Putin's part. Militarily, he can win this if he wants, but his victory will be pyrrhic. The political cost is going to be so high, he'll wish he never did it.

    2) NATO sucks.

    I don't understand how NATO "allies" (Looking at you, Germany) can pursue policies that undermine the coalition, if not the security of all of Europe, and then invoke article 5 and expect us to honor that commitment in good faith?

    NATO either needs to be taken far more seriously by the participating states or it needs to be disbanded.

    3) Putin may have been provoked somewhat.

    But that provocation won't provide political over for his actions now.

    4) Russia is throwing away a lot of good will and makes it impossible for any American politician to suggest working with them with trust, and normalizing relations.

    Given China's belligerence and behavior, this may be a major miscalculation for Russia in the years to come.

    5) Ukraine is a backwards, corrupt country nobody thought much of.. Till now.

    They're heroes. It's amazing. Their leader is a comedian, and he's willing to fight to the death. There's a bunch of really powerful stories surrounding the war and it is common people displaying extraordinary courage and resolve.

    This is part of why Putin will lose, even if he does succeed in conquering Ukraine in whole or in part. Because these men and women represent what we all admire about the human spirit and the contrast is a terrible one. They're heroes. He's Hitler.

    6) The political class suck, generally. We need less of them.

    All of the energy and the principled behavior seems to be with political noobies. While the political class look ossified and, frankly? They've spent a lifetime CAUSING problems that now have to be worked out.

    The argument for the existence of the political, ruling class has always been that everyone needs them so. Right now? They're looking like the problem. NOT the solution. The world will see patriots and heroes like the President of Ukraine and desire more men like that. Not more Bidens or Kerrys.

    IMVHO.

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    +1 on the above. Totally.

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    wattasuck up, post up nudies as that is your forte

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    When I saw all those Russian troops in one spot I thought, wow a Russian Pearl Harbor moment.

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    I would bet the Chinese are quietly chuckling to themselves. Theyíre most likely looking at Russia and wondering what they need them for.
    It would make sense that theyíre wholly unimpressed with the Russian military, in general.

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    For the serious the best sources require wading through Twitter and Reddit to find links. OSINT is a major deal in this war.

    If you get your news from conventional US media best to ignore that shit as it's late and meant to monetize mongoloids.

    Here's a good overview from man in a cup via Google Translate. It corresponds to my wide daily reading on the subject and is a decent description which fits perfectly with the roadbound stalled convoys As a former NATO speedbump I'm loving it and dead Soviets/NeoSoviets make me smile. Read the whole thing, best done on a PC because phones are inherently shit unless screencast etc. to a larger display:

    https://vk-com.translate.goog/@guywi..._x_tr_pto=wapp

    Some comedy for those who don't care for reading and an even more amusing destroyed Russian convoy.
    Hitler reacts to Russia invading Ukraine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRYlA5-ARTY
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails journoguide.jpg   oops.jpg  
    Last edited by farmall; 03-02-2022 at 1:50 AM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    Observations:

    1) He appears to be trying to take the whole country.

    I think this is a major, major miscalculation on Putin's part. Militarily, he can win this if he wants, but his victory will be pyrrhic. The political cost is going to be so high, he'll wish he never did it.

    2) NATO sucks.

    I don't understand how NATO "allies" (Looking at you, Germany) can pursue policies that undermine the coalition, if not the security of all of Europe, and then invoke article 5 and expect us to honor that commitment in good faith?

    NATO either needs to be taken far more seriously by the participating states or it needs to be disbanded.

    3) Putin may have been provoked somewhat.

    But that provocation won't provide political over for his actions now.

    4) Russia is throwing away a lot of good will and makes it impossible for any American politician to suggest working with them with trust, and normalizing relations.

    Given China's belligerence and behavior, this may be a major miscalculation for Russia in the years to come.

    5) Ukraine is a backwards, corrupt country nobody thought much of.. Till now.

    They're heroes. It's amazing. Their leader is a comedian, and he's willing to fight to the death. There's a bunch of really powerful stories surrounding the war and it is common people displaying extraordinary courage and resolve.

    This is part of why Putin will lose, even if he does succeed in conquering Ukraine in whole or in part. Because these men and women represent what we all admire about the human spirit and the contrast is a terrible one. They're heroes. He's Hitler.

    6) The political class suck, generally. We need less of them.

    All of the energy and the principled behavior seems to be with political noobies. While the political class look ossified and, frankly? They've spent a lifetime CAUSING problems that now have to be worked out.

    The argument for the existence of the political, ruling class has always been that everyone needs them so. Right now? They're looking like the problem. NOT the solution. The world will see patriots and heroes like the President of Ukraine and desire more men like that. Not more Bidens or Kerrys.

    IMVHO.
    Amazing words. I agree with you. I think and hope that P. will lose because the way Ukrainians fight for their country, for freedom is amazing.

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    Not more Bidens or Kerrys.
    Or Trumps. or Bernies. They're all shit who succeed by emotionally affirming the gullible masses who roll over like a retarded puppy when lied to in a comforting manner. I follow money and legislation not their speeches. Both parties sold out our economy to ChiComs and neither give a shit about small business vs. their corporate masters.

    No US politician should have business ties while in office to Russia, either version of China or the Middle East oil states for starters or any business aligned with them.
    We won't get that unless the public take foreign policy seriously so don't expect much from a people who only care about trifling stupid shit instead of how the world around them works (not how they're told it does or want to believe it does. Commodified rebellion is not rebellion, it's conformity).

    Muscovy delenda est.

    Germany finally sent weapons but we should remember we fought two wars to castrate them.
    Last edited by farmall; 03-02-2022 at 11:18 AM.

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    I spent most of military service with the 3rd/64th tank battalion in Germany training for the Soviets to invade. Lots of evenings spent patrolling the Czech border. Then a few years ago I come to find out we closed the base I was at, there was a LOT of German resistance to our being there. I bet they wish all of our tanks were there right now!

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    Of course I start reading this take on the whole invasion at 0700, get called into a massive post partum uterine hemorrhage at 0715, back home at 1230 and now can’t access for some reason, any other links? I’ll try again later if still accessible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Or Trumps.
    I deliberately omitted Trump because he's exactly the type of politician I feel we need more of.

    I follow money and legislation not their speeches...
    Me too. I've been listening since 2015 and haven't yet heard an objective argument against Trump.

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    I totally agree MSM is full of propaganda. Also did a bunch of reading and found out some interesting shit.
    Seems the recently discovered HUGE Leviathan energy field is at the heart of it all and would be used to destroy the Russian economy which is largely dependent on Russian gas/oil sales to Europe.
    The puppet leader of Ukraine is Jewish. Fine. But the entire military and government has been infiltrated by Neo-Nazis. Even to the point of a Ukrainian negotiator just murdered who said to maybe consider being neutral like the Swiss. He got back to Ukraine and was arrested and then found with two bullet holes in his chest. Globalist plan is to have Ukraine as a hub for the delivery of the Laviathan oil/gas which would effectively negate the need for Russian energy. The Neo-Nazis would obviously stand in the way of this since they openly say they love killing, have threatened with death any politician thinking of going against them, have been killing Russians/Jews to the point of Jews fleeing to Israel years ago and shelling/sniping of the 4 million pro and possibly pro-Russians who populate the 2 'breakaway states' that broke away due to opposing the coup that placed the new US placed leader into power.
    Remember when Greese was about bankrupt? All got quiet on this. It was squeezed into this situation to give up its 20% stake in Leviathan. Turkey got 20% share and even threatened greece for an attack if it tried exploring/drilling in the leviathon field off its coast within its waters. Greese has no navy so complied. Big party in Israel due to the declaration of total energy independence due to Leviathin even happened.

    The Neo-Nazis have to be eliminated from Ukraine since they would not serve ANYONE but themselves. Look at all the refugee/military pics and no off-whites at all. They will serve pure Ukraines and nobody else will get in. Russia is doing the dirty work by eliminating the Neo's. Once done then Ukraine has a better chance of becoming a global cabal-run hub. Sure Russia has to be squeezed out after the dirty work, but that has better prospects for success than leaving the neo-Nazis to control pipelines.

    Remember when biological weapons was excuse to invade a country.... all proven to be BS? Well the head US lady when asked by Rubio recently if Ukraine has such stuff she basically said the US was concerned Russia might learn things from the captured Ukraine papers/research facilities that might raise its ability to make really bad biological warfare stuff. Rubio quickly asked another question to get a 'no' from her to cover up her obvious 'concern' which clearly shows she feels that such stuff was being developed and that it's possibly even more deadly than what Russia has been researching over the past many years. Here it is on utube at 39:50 or so...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_HxR5GU518
    So what was good to lie about to justify the US invading another country isn't even mentioned as a part reason for Russia to invade Ukraine even with her admission it goes on there?

    Now the Neo-Nazis are foolishly thinking they'll win and have been given all kinds of small stuff to 'poke the bear'. They are in fact the target. Hate someone who hates cops? Want him gone? When he's crazy mad about a parking ticket that town cop just gave him, hand him a loaded gun. After the police force gets done with him he won't be around to bug you again. That's exactly what's going on in Ukraine right now. "Go get him we got your back!!" Then walk away.....
    Last edited by cisco; 03-12-2022 at 9:39 AM.

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    Sorry to bug you guys but 'shadow ban' has been happening so much that I wonder if anyone read the post I made? Not asking for comments, just if it can be read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cisco View Post
    Sorry to bug you guys but 'shadow ban' has been happening so much that I wonder if anyone read the post I made? Not asking for comments, just if it can be read.
    Yep, I can see it.

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    Really questioning why we even bother with NATO at this point..

    Now we learn that EU states (France and Germany are the biggest offenders, respectively.) have been selling prohibited weapons TO Russia.. In addition to adopting policies that undermine the safety of the continent, their own states, the NATO alliance generally, and place them completely at the mercy of Vlad Putin and Russia.. Who we are SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE is the entire problem here..

    Except that they enabled him every step of the fucking way?

    It is a bit like driving the getaway car, then feigning shock at news of the robbery. Ya know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    Really questioning why we even bother with NATO at this point..

    Now we learn that EU states (France and Germany are the biggest offenders, respectively.) have been selling prohibited weapons TO Russia.. In addition to adopting policies that undermine the safety of the continent, their own states, the NATO alliance generally, and place them completely at the mercy of Vlad Putin and Russia.. Who we are SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE is the entire problem here..

    Except that they enabled him every step of the fucking way?

    It is a bit like driving the getaway car, then feigning shock at news of the robbery. Ya know?
    Yep, Russian gas still being bought by France and Germany, and Total Oil still refusing to break with Russian imports. We watched Putin rebuild his Forces and still traded with him , funding it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    Yep, Russian gas still being bought by France and Germany, and Total Oil still refusing to break with Russian imports. We watched Putin rebuild his Forces and still traded with him , funding it all.
    Pretty amazing, isn't it? NATO looks like a clown beating itself in the head with a lead brick and drooling.

    These people are in charge of our politics WHY, again?

    Also.. I'm more than a little surprised at the reaction from the rest of the world.

    I expected to see a strong coalition stand up in defense of the post war order Putin has violated here. We are witnessing the death of that order and I guess I just expected to see actors far and wide cite it as a red line we will not allow to be crossed like this. Georgia and Crimea were "special" cases somewhat, in that Russia (if not Putin himself) enjoyed a degree of legitimate, democratic support in these tiny areas. Not so when he's looking at grabbing all of Ukraine.

    I'm a little disappointed to see that not everyone seems to have a problem with it.

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    All the interesting stuff is on a mix of Telegram channel and Twitter posts making this war the first where onsite individual reporting bypasses slow infotainment drivel.

    Neo-Nazi influence in Ukraine is greatly exaggerated by propagandists and their gullible followers who pretty much point at Azov then tardshriek as if it were Direlewanger's crew reincarnated instead of being very different and including Orthodox Jewish Ukrainian Nationalists.

    Times of Israel piece on the subject:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrain...up-for-battle/

    Many Americans and Europeans are only capable of wanting to relate the world to their parochial interests and only capable of relating to their pet conspiracies as genuine curiosity is too much like work. (As with religion criticism of this is regarded as part of the enemy plot.) Boomers (I am one) are generally incapable of figuring out how modern internet communication (hint, not Facebook) works let alone how to sort it which requires genuine interest in Cold War and Russo-Ukrainian and former Warsaw Pact history. Adopting canned ideologies is for people too lazy to put in work. That makes them easy to manipulate using other canned ideologies (kudos to the Russian Glavset crew who are far more intelligent being computer nerds than the impressively incompetent Russian armed forces). Proud people who think they can't be fooled are easy targets. That also works for typical lower class Russian "vatniks" who believe Putin a hero. Russian disinfo is multifaceted and typically well executed.

    Current NATO aid to Ukraine is unprecedented with even Luxemburg helping out and Sweden and Finland considering NATO membership. Nothing like that happened in Cold War v.1.0 though some Western aid flowed to resistance units in the Baltics and Ukraine (who didn't fold until years after WWII ended). It's interesting stuff but a biker forum is not the place for it because bikers are generally not of demographics taking a professional military interest in the subject. It's fine to be old stoners and some of my best bros are but there is no simplistic guide to a very complex conflict. Not even the warfare is simple let alone the reasons for spectacularly asstastic Russian military performance.

    NATO is not remotely at the mercy of Russia. The US and EU are however greedy and stupid so they naively wanted to trade with therefore enrich the enemy. That's purely optional but our publics refuse to discipline and control our rich kleptarch classes. I'm surprised the EU killed (at least for now) Nordstream II. It will take a major Russian atrocity to shut off gas to the EU, but Russians are incompetent enough to manage that by accident.

    Collective petroleum addiction ensured trade with Russians and sand vermin against the interests of civilization, but this time the US and EU are not nearly as vulnerable as during the 1970s OPEC crisis. Current petroleum and gas supply constraints are more easily dealt with. Northern Europe has effective wind and hydro power it lacked in the early Cold War and vehicles are more fuel-efficient than in ancient times.

    I'm a little disappointed to see that not everyone seems to have a problem with it.
    Greed comes first. Wall Street sold out American manufacturing to China then vulture capitalists worked to gut what remained. Detente and NAFTA were bipartisan.

    https://fortune.com/2022/03/16/compa...ccountability/

    EU:
    https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...8cd9399a1d3b7c

    European automakers have an extensive presence. Volkswagen, Stellantis, Renault and Mercedes-Benz have factories in Russia, while BMW makes cars there through Russian partner Avtotor. France’s Renault owns Russia’s biggest carmaker, Avtovaz, with its sprawling plant in Tolyatti. Stellantis plans to import commercial vans under its Peugeot, Opel and Citroen brands from its plant in Kaluga to meet Europe’s increased demand for delivery services.

    Italian tiremaker Pirelli, which is Chinese owned, operates two factories employing some 2,500 people in Russia, producing tires mostly for the domestic market but also for export.

    “We continue to invest, and we believe in the development of the Russian market and internationalization,” CEO Marco Tronchetti Provera told reporters last month. “We believe that even in crises, we must find a meeting point, and we believe that equilibrium will be found in the end.”

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