Plunger Frame Old School look with Evo

[Artfuleye62]

I need some help here. Please. Calling on all old school knowledgeable builders. Please be kind this is my heart and soul we are dealing with.
I have a plunger frame 6 over I need help identifying.
Everything I have learned, puts it closest to an Amen Savior Sportster frame.
Will my evo fit.? It looks to be close and tight which I like.
Pics below.

[shovel625]

a evo what? big twin? no....evo sporty, maybe. looks like it was made for a early ironhead, left side brake right side shift

[Artfuleye62]

Yes Sir. That is what I was told. The springs are rock hard and I am currently beating the axle out so I can stick a back tire on it and measure for forks.

[TriNortchopz]

I need some help here. Please. Calling on all old school knowledgeable builders. Please be kind this is my heart and soul we are dealing with.
I have a plunger frame 6 over I need help identifying.
Everything I have learned, puts it closest to an Amen Savior Sportster frame.

Pics below.

It's not an Amen frame, as they had the axle through the centre of the spring - that one has an axle plate behind the spring - the most common of that plunger style were made by Santee, known as their softail.


Here is one I built using a KZ1105:

and those plunger style parts available from British Cycle Supply

[DustyDave]

I don't believe it's a Savior As far as I know they all had the axle through the center of the spring
like this\

Dusty

[TriNortchopz]

I have a plunger frame 6 over..Sportster frame.
Will my evo fit.? It looks to be close and tight which I like.
Pics below.

Here are a few CC threads on fitting an Evo into an ironhead frame:

2009 Thread: Can you fit an Evo powerplant into an Ironhead Frame?
A:from StoneHead: "I did it this summer but you have to weld new front motor mounts, or cut some new plates. I had a paughco rigid for an 80 iron head and a 97 buell s1. pics on my profile. cut out the iron head frame mounts and welded in new ones. might have been easier in high insight to just custom make new mounting plates. "
http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1819

2014 Thread: My evo engine/ironhead frame build by lochenjons:
..."Frankenstein projects with parts from several different bikes...its an 89 evo bottom end with s&s 1200 top end (I think, po said it was an 80 cu in which I thought didn't sound right). It's in a 60's ironhead frame (I think)...started thinking how strange it was that an evo motor fit so easily in a 60's frame so after doing some research I learned that there's clearance issues with the rear rocker box...plan at this point is to tunnel out the rocker box so the frame goes "thru"it. Not sure if it's gonna work with oil passages etc...Pulled one of the heads and its a 3 5/8 bore with a cylinder height of 5" which according to s&s makes it an 89 cu in...Btw rear cylinder fits!"
http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36862

2010 Thread: ironhead frame / evo motor. can it be done ?
A: by xllance: "I know I've seen a four speed evo in an 82' frame and it looked like all they changed was the top motor mount."
A: by imtheslime: "here are some ih frame dimensions."
A: by sharby: "I am in the middle of a 74 Ironhead project, I have stuffed a 92 evo 1200 into the frame,
the rear mounts needed 5/8in spacers on the two top mounts, top center mount lined up great,
front mounts were a little more work I had to grind off the stand offs and make a new set of mounts. didn't really take long. I also had to remove the kickstand assembly and left side foot peg mount. Im going to relocate the kickstand further forward. I had to notch out about 3/8 inch from the backbone right near the rear tank mount, put in a piece of flat stock and welded up for strength...I had talked to a lot of people about this build before i started and most all of them told me it wasnt going to happen, that the evo would never fit in that frame..... thats what made me try it. it took a lot of chin scratching but its in there."
http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2298

[shovel625]

Yes Sir. That is what I was told. The springs are rock hard and I am currently beating the axle out so I can stick a back tire on it and measure for forks.

those front mounts are def sportster

[farmall]

Do you have a frame with a title? Do you have a donor bike or is this bits'n'pieces?

You have a variety of options. Give us an overview of the project to help us help you.

[Artfuleye62]

Yes sir, but the Harley 74 looks to be the closest. Hard for me to tell I ve been working long hours and haven't had the time to look, I was told the plungers would have numbers on them if it was indeed an amen. I cannot really tell if this frame had been coated or if it's corrosion.

[Artfuleye62]

It's the project in the picture Sir, I have everything the motor the frame etc. What I do with my paperwork is neither here nor there.

[Artfuleye62]

Thank you all for the insight, I know it can be done, However I will not be cutting on this frame, I will sell it and buy one that I won't have to molest to get what I want.

[farmall]

FYI the title question wasn't "intruding" into what you do with your paperwork but relevant to the various options one has with older frames being modified which may conveniently include an existing title. Unless a machine is never registered for the street that is an important part of planning a build. Don't get your panties in a wad when that's mentioned.

Many noobs (and plenty of old fuckers) get bit by what they think they know about titles from old wives tales then bleed money sorting them out. That's why I remind people. You came here for free help. That's relevant help, demonstrated by many posts from builders who neglected a title plan.

Proper modification isn't molestation. I'm not sure why you would even use that word when it comes to a chopper. Even if you mod nothing, that's worth understanding. If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't be asking. Everyone starts somewhere so take care not to be hard headed.

If you are uncomfortable modifying frames or having them professionally altered, you might consider a new custom frame incorporating the plunger suspension of your preference.

A frame modded by a pro is as good as a new one. It's steel tubing, not a marble statue. That chassis isn't valuable so if you decide you want a plunger suspension and you find the parts serviceable there's little reason not to use it for a donor if you can't source the parts elsewhere. If you view it as a "plunger rear section" that can be migrated to other frames that's more logical if you must have a plunger suspension.


BTW now and forever refer to engines SPECIFICALLY. Evo big twins are interchangeable but their primary and transmissions differ by model. Evo Sportsters come in solid and rubbermount flavors.

You'll be riding the result, not us, so get what YOU want. Study so you want wisely. With some looking you can recognise frame styles at a glance. There is much more homework than it might seem, but homework doesn't cost anything and saves shitloads of money.

[Artfuleye62]

Thank you for the insight

[BigChief612]

Can someone tell me if these plunger style frames were available pre 70? I'm looking at getting one but the guy knows nothing about the frame, I'm not interested in building a iron head so I also need any help I can get in identifying this frame before I buy it and find out it's not what I need or want. From the Santee pages posted on this thread it looks like the 74 big twin frame but the guy says no numbers so I think it's got to be pre 70s

[TriNortchopz]

Can someone tell me if these plunger style frames were available pre 70? I'm looking at getting one but the guy knows nothing about the frame, I'm not interested in building a iron head so I also need any help I can get in identifying this frame before I buy it and find out it's not what I need or want. From the Santee pages posted on this thread it looks like the 74 big twin frame but the guy says no numbers so I think it's got to be pre 70s

Maybe something in these 8 pages of:
AMEN SAVIOR FRAME HISTORY ✓




https://myframe.co/amen-savior-frame-history/

These plunger style chopper frames were available in the 70's, but not sure if they were before that.
I had several of them (Amen and Santee style) for Z-1s, Honda 750s, Yamaha 650, Honda 450 which easily accepted a Triumph unit 650; none of them had frame numbers...

Can you post a pic of the one you are looking at?

[horshak]

Maybe something in these 8 pages of:
AMEN SAVIOR FRAME HISTORY ✓




https://myframe.co/amen-savior-frame-history/

These plunger style chopper frames were available in the 70's, but not sure if they were before that.
I had several of them (Amen and Santee style) for Z-1s, Honda 750s, Yamaha 650, Honda 450 which easily accepted a Triumph unit 650; none of them had frame numbers...

Can you post a pic of the one you are looking at?

positive it's not a Amen frame. I ran one of these horrible frames in the '70s on a ironhead I wonder if it's mine. Run away from it. A problem I had was the plungers were floating up down of course but also side to side. If you went into a curve the back end of the bike floated around. It often happend to me that you were stopped for a (say left) turn and gassed it the axle retainer which fit around the axle with the adjuster pushing from the rear into a dimple in the plunger would drop and the wheel would cock and the tire would hit the frame. All you could do was push it to the side of the road and kick the tire to get it to move back so you could put the adjuster back in position. Suspension there was almost none as you have noticed. You are better off with a hardtail. Another problem is how you have to run the chain very loose. On a normal bike the swingarm moves in a arc the distance for the chain is the same. With the plunger it goes up and down so the chain gets tight if the suspension moves at all. Also you mentioned having to hammer the axle out. Is the chrome missing on the bolt head of the axle? If it was like mine they chromed the axle then someone had to beat the axle into the wheel bearings.