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  1. #1
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    Default paint prices

    okay i havent bought automotive paint in years
    and im just about ready to buy my paint supplies
    im going either ppg or hok
    going to be buying the primer, base and clear plus reducer and activator all from one of the two vendors
    painting a hardtailed shovel frame , wassell ribbed fender and 3.5 gal tanks
    what kind of ball park price am i looking at so i dont have sticker shock when i go in and talk to the shop?
    thanks guys

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    Activator prices will shock you, compared to what the paint costs, I'm not sure about U.S pricing compared to Canada, but it does add up, well worth it.

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    If you buying based off price stay away from HOK. It's high plus it's not user friendly and not as good a product as it was 10 years ago. PPG I like I don't use it as much as I used to but it's still a nice product. It is very user friendly. I just found another paint line I like better. The price depends on quality do you want their Omni line ( which I hate) Omni plus or Deltron. Omni and Shop Line are the same thing depending on what supplier you go to. Then you have color black and whites are generally cheaper than say red or orange. I have seen 2 different red pearls be $250 a pint in the last 6 months. Clear can run anywhere from $40 a gallon to $400 a gallon. You won't need a gallon to do a motorcycle but that gives you an idea. Don't skimp on clear coat if you go basecoat/clear coat l. The clear will give you UV protection to help the paint last. Do you want a 2 year paintbjob or a 20 year paint job? it will also give your tank protection against fuel spills at the pump. As was stated activators will give you sticker shock.

    If your looking for a good paint line Thats budget friendly look at Limco from BASF

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    PPG,HOK, and DuPont may be the most expensive paint in the game. All of them are also argued as the best and they are great products IMO. Usually budget painters are pretty content with Duplicolor.

    Buying any of the big three's products you'll be over $200 into it but you will have tons of leftovers most of which you're just not going to use. Duplicolor you'll be around or under $100 and minimal leftovers if you're willing to use to duplicolor rattle can primer.

    If you (understandably) insist on using one of "the best" it might be more economical to do the prep work yourself and farm out the actual spraying to a trusted local pro.

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    I use ppg, there's another manufacturer I like ,just forgot name but it's a ,,1 to 1 mix ratio on base coat sorry I forget name but kappa is where I been getting my ppg from. Now Andy's is another ballgame

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    I've used old school DuPont lacquer and I have used Imron, but not any of the new stuff. I am leaning heavily toward the HOK paints for the Panhead I am building, just cause the system is clearly documented. I will be really interested in what you end up using and what it costs you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomBuggy View Post
    I've used old school DuPont lacquer
    That was good but I also liked using R&M lacquer....

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    I used Custom Shop on my Softail. It's a cheaper alternative to HOK and it worked really well. The clear lays down like glass, had zero issues with 7 layers of base and 3 rounds of clear @ 2 coats per round.TCP Global sells it online.

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    If you are looking for current price sheets this is an odd way of doing it. Place to go & people to talk to would be some of your local paint reps and shops. Business is always in a state of change and flux so, best to look at local markets and possible to order some products online.

    If you want an opinion on products, many variables, Price? Quality? Application? Toxicity? (Polyisocyanates-Synthetic form of cyanide, just saying! )

    I have been spraying since the late 70s and as a broke kid, learned how cause I couldnt afford to pay someone.
    My opinions on quality is
    #1 is Spies Hecker (VERY expensive, but worth it)
    #2 Glasurit
    #3 RM-BASF
    #4 Valspar

    Also depends on Clear? Primers? Base coat or single stage color (Catalyzed enamels or Poly?) I am a paint reps nightmare because I use all kinds of product depending on what I am painting. For customs I LOVE House of Kolor, But I dont use their entire product line. Also depends on my own or a customer or friend.

    Im cheap too, so Ill shop the mistake bins, and customer reject, dealer closeouts and left over product from other shops. I still have some old Dupont Centari, Limco, and other old school stuff. I am repainting some shelving, pallet racks and storage cabinets and some of that old oddball stuff works great. If it blows up who cares?

    Remember the following might be helpful. (Used to have this in my shop and several friends had similar in theirs)

    You can have High quality, You can have low cost and you can have it fast, But you only get 2 out of 3. Pick which ones.


    "We overcharge every third customer to pass the savings onto YOU!"

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    i gota quote on some valspar a middle of the line ppg and tri star
    the valspar rep seemed to be most in tune with what i was trying to do
    gonna go to a better more complete ppg dealer today and get another quote
    may try and find a dupont spot as well
    the valspar came in around 500 canadian for quart primer, quart base, gallon of clear and the assorted reducers and activators to go with the products
    the mid grade ppg came in around 400 with the same but only a quart of clear
    so far every hok rep i've talked to has tried to steer me away from it, which is very odd to me
    i liked the valspar color so far the best based on the little itty bitty sample

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    That was good but I also liked using R&M lacquer....
    Damn forgot all about the R&M, that was good shit!

    The guy who taught me would keep beer bottles of mixed paint on a shelf ready for his airbrush.

    A note that if you use this method be very careful about any gold translucent colors, with enough alcohol in your system that bottle can look a heck of a lot like a real beer. ( There is a true story behind that statement )

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomBuggy View Post
    Damn forgot all about the R&M, that was good shit!
    I've still got 2 gal of Black.... I think I'm going to paint my Knuck with that... Nothing looks like Black lacquer done right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    I've still got 2 gal of Black.... I think I'm going to paint my Knuck with that... Nothing looks like Black lacquer done right...
    +1 im still young and learning and tend to favor the newer poly's because that is what I was taught with but nothing beats the look of black lacquer based base/top coats done correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehate View Post
    i gota quote on some valspar a middle of the line ppg and tri star
    the valspar rep seemed to be most in tune with what i was trying to do
    gonna go to a better more complete ppg dealer today and get another quote
    may try and find a dupont spot as well
    the valspar came in around 500 canadian for quart primer, quart base, gallon of clear and the assorted reducers and activators to go with the products
    the mid grade ppg came in around 400 with the same but only a quart of clear
    so far every hok rep i've talked to has tried to steer me away from it, which is very odd to me
    i liked the valspar color so far the best based on the little itty bitty sample
    There is a ton of variables here depending on what you want to do. As well as this a one time thing or you might do a couple paint jobs over time. It is VERY expensive to just buy product for one motorcycle job. Buying in bulk and spreading out the costs over several jobs is the way to go. Back in the day when I started it was common in many neighborhoods on a nice saturday morning to see some hot rodder either doing a early morning driveway squirt and hoping birds dont shit on him, or more commonly a 2x4s and sheet plastic spray booth and doing their Chevelle or Mustang. Still get a warm fuzzy when I smell old school centari. But its not easy today to just buy product for one job.

    I tend to spray the same primers regardless of product used over it. I buy gun cleaner in 5 gal cans. I use whatever clears I like and can afford, what goes under that clear varies. (or a single stage enamel or Poly), Paint reps TRY to get you to use their entire product line from start to finish for good reasons (Multiple)

    But in my opinion,, The Valspar line tends to be pretty consistent in how it behaves, good quality , and not too bad on prices. Valspar BOUGHT House of Kolor some years back, so really depends on the politics. (What relationship and margins the paint rep has, past work experience, and prev relationships) Many reps have bounced around from product line to line and often what they recommend is based on their needs/opinions or personal drama not yours. In the last 30 years in my area the Distributors, retailers and reps situation is like a Mexican soap opera.

    One of my buddies used to be the top PPG painter in the NW. They had a factory supported training program and classes and he went to them all for about 10 years. They had some sort of ranking system and he topped out. While I still have some of their product on the shelf and use it sometimes, I dont care for their product lines. Too many weird rules, One special reducer and hardener for their primer, then another special reducer for the base coat, then another Reducer and hardener for their Clear coat. No crossing products either. They have multiple paint systems and you cant mix between them.

    The reason I like RM-BASF and Valspar is ONE reducer for Primer-Base-Clear, In RM-BASF I used to love their DE-15 etch primer. Use a light coat for frames and brackets followed by single stage Cat. Enamel or Poly and if you want extra gloss you cocktail in a little clear at the end.
    If it was bodywork or tins I would follow a piss coat of DE-15 with DP20 Filler primer (often color tinted). They also wanted a sealer but I rarely used it. (Never had a problem)

    With Valspar,, they make a Primer that has etch properties. Some of the reps dont like hearing it, But I have it on good authority If you only want a no-fill etch primer mix it like DE15 (Watery thin) and do piss coats. If you want filler-sandable, then mix it as per instructions. It also has sealer properties and reps will get mad, but you can tint it as well. Its not exactly the same as what I have been using, (VP50)
    But here is the current version. See: http://www.valsparrefinish.com/primers_other_VP50.jsp
    In a nutshell,, its a very versatile product. NOT like the chemistry set that PPG is. By having a more universal one size fits all Primer you save a LOT!

    One of the reasons I get stuck sometimes with PPG is if I need a color match. My local paint tech is an old German lady and getting a good match for a repair is not easy, so if its a difficult job she likes PPG and a true wizard on getting it right. (Her Doberman goes to work with her and wanders the store). Her daughter and son run the store and they dont like RM-BASF, or Glasurit so Its hard for me to get product. They always try to push me onto the PPG. My old source was more multi brand friendly.

    I have never used the full line of House of Kolor, The 2 main products of theirs I use are the Base color coats. (look like a candy but are not, and some colors that works well) And then I use the Catalyzed Candys. (Base coat shimrin substrate, followed by the translucent catalyzed Candy-then clear coated with what ever I like-Valspar, RM, Glasurit or Spies). I took some classes with the paint god guru Jon Kosmoski who started HOK, He does seminars and classes and worth attending or buying his videos. A real talent.

    But again, it depends on the job. Show bike or something ridden hard? HOK Kandys build up thickness a LOT.. If you chip it, scratch or have a dent repair good luck in doing a color match blend in repair. Plus you got a very thick layer of product to remove. I take notes on every job so I know how I got a certain shade or look.

    For example,, If you use a light grey primer or a black/dark grey primer it will affect the color tint. (Which is why many people tint their primers plus it saves on product that you dont have to spray so much color over it to hide) painting a red car? Tint the primer any shade of red, doesnt matter. But the color coats will cover better and less chance of bleed.

    On HOK,, I like using Kandy Burple and Kandy Kobalt Blue. But truth is, a True Kandy has a color coat base (Silver metal flake for example)
    with a translucent Blue over the top. It really has depth and pops. But HOK also makes a really nice color base coat (Not a true Kandy) that is hard to tell apart. Do some test panels side by side and hard to tell the Kandy from the straight base coat. So why bother?? It adds cost, thickness and complexity. Just clear the fucker. One issue though is with their Blues is they bleed badly so if 2 tone you need to use a sealer clear, do your second color and then clear coat normally. For my 68 Chevelle I am doing Cobalt Blue base coat with Alaskan white rally stripes so I have to use the sealer clear. If you dont that beautiful white will bleed over time and end up light blue.

    Now,.,. I have sold a LOT of bikes with what I call "Resale Red". Either HOK Kandy Apple or Kandy Brandywine. It makes men drool and women swoon. Pure sex. But you cant get the true depth and pizzazz with a base coat. Gotta be a true Kandy.
    So with HOK you pick the base color Shimrin substrate. ( I usually go with Pagan Gold fine or big flake depending on how pimp daddy you want to go.) Then you follow with how many color coats to get the shading and depth you want of the Apple red or Brandywine. This is a catalyzed Kandy. (HOK Hardener). Allow it to flash and then either bury it in Clear if one color or 2-3 light clear coats if 2 tone. Again,, A good cream or Alaskan White really pops over that red. Scallops, flames, Rally stripes. So let the clear harden up. Lightly wet sand. Do your 2 tone color, touch of clear if pin striping and let harden. Sand again (400 then 600) Pinstripe it. Then pull your tape and masking,, and bury the SOB in tons of clear.

    When you are done,, its THICK.. thats a lot of product. I do a certain amount of clear, let everything rock up, then block sand,, get it all one level or close to it. Then do more clear. When I am done, I have one surface despite their being multiple colors and rally stripes-scallops-flames-Decals-Stickers or whatever. When you run your hand or polishing cloth over it. No bumps or ridges.

    Heres a job I am doing on my 68 BSA spitfire, Its got Fine flake gold, Kandy Brandywine and a little clear. I did the decals and then cleared again. It needs block sanding and more clear. Theres some solvent popping on the side covers I hope to hide-get rid of.

    I will be doing another batch soon, 2 BSA unit singles (441 and 250) a 1967 Hornet and a Bitsa Bobber. ( Variety of mid 60s BSA unit twin 650) Each of those will be again Kandy brandywine. The stockers will be fine flake gold but the bobber will be big flakes. They will be 2 toned with White paint and gold pinstriping. The bobber will be getting scallops half way back on the tank and rally stripes on the fenders.
    By doing multiple bikes in one job I save a LOT of time and money. Tons. The only issue is preventing some of that big flake for settling on the other body work. But Booth prep is only one time. One set of filters, One set of sticks, strainers, gun cleanings and misc cleanup. I have a buddy who might add his Triumph body work in the session as well. If we do.. Ill charge enough that will cover all my costs and basically my stuff comes out free, and he gets a show quality paint job at a 1/3 of what many shops would charge.

    Always gotta work the angles... Hope this helps and gives you some ideas. I have LOTs of Ideas but I have several friends who's wives are threatening restraining orders because I am a bad influence.


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    not doing anything too fancy
    base coat clear coat
    solid color
    super dark maroon
    similar to this car
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    the valspar rep was pushing black dtm primer/surfacer as a all around use primer
    and a 2k poly clear

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    Thats a nice classy color. I go overboard on the custom stuff sometimes and nice to go back to more understated color schemes sometimes. Good idea you have to take a picture like that. I have a job board and I take pictures and notes and throw them on the board to help visualize ideas. Like a good song,, a great build will have many flavors and influences.
    My 1948 Speedtwin should be a color very similar to that. Triumph used it a lot and called "Amaranth red" I did a similar color a few years back on the father in laws MG sports car. MG has their own name for that color but again, very similar.

    Because its not a candy,,I would think you shouldnt bother with HOK then. Now,, I can think of a Kandy Black Cherry that would be close,, But it sounds more reasonable to just go with a solid color. It all depends on what you have in your area but I personally like VALSPAR products. As i said, I like how the product line works, how it sprays and behaves and the prices are reasonable compared to others. Here is a factoid. Valspar is the oldest paint company in the US and Valspar paint was used on George Washingtons house. Good luck with it and have fun. Do a good job and all kinds of people will be asking you to paint their stuff as well.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehate View Post
    the valspar rep was pushing black dtm primer/surfacer as a all around use primer
    and a 2k poly clear
    i like valspar. it's high quality and reasonably priced compared to HOK (who is owned by valspar) and PPG.
    the LVB/LVCC series of paints are real nice and the clear is super slick/high solids and gas resistant.
    Depending on where you go some places will only sell gallons. other places will sell you a pint. ain't cheap but it's worth it.
    and the dtm primers can be mixed into any colour you want...

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    went to napa today to get a price on dupont, he didnt wanna sell me dupont and was pushing matrix
    that came out around 435 after tax with quart primer, quart base and quart clear
    so basically the same price as the valspar once you double up the clear

    im really having an issue getting prices on dupont and ppg
    as the two of the biggest names in paint you think that wouldnt be the case at all

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    As I said, what paint reps and stores push, is not always in your best interests. I always take what they say with a grain of salt but I know a few reps who tend to be fairly honest but I cant speak for your situation but often its what offers the best margins for the shop or rep that is what is pushed. Now a product rep, THEY want you happy with their product lines and will bend over backwards to help you be successful. An unhappy Point of sale will go elsewhere and trash talk their product line.
    But a jobber pushing flavor of the day is going to be looking at his bottom line, not your needs. Important distinction.
    I have not looked into it. But it seems to me there could be a nice market for an online seller who sold good value product tailored to this kind of market. (part time-sporadic custom painters) and sell 3-4 tier product package deals. (Cheap shit, Moderate cheap shit, Okay stuff- & Premium) in small job quantities and perhaps add on some paint supplies (Filters, fine line tape, disposable respirators etc). But I bet its the paint shop mafia would shut it down.

    But it sounds like they are pushing the discount shit on you. (better margins) Dont know your area but see if you can find a FACTORY paint/product rep and tell him your are having issues finding Point of Sale who wont dick you around. This might open some doors for you, or even a discount. I have worked that angle myself a time or 2. The product rep gets paid regardless and just wants to make sure you purchase their brand and are happy with it.

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