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  1. #1

    Default My first Bike build frame question. stretch and drop ?

    Hey guys, Been rebuilding a 71 ironhead. Never road a bike or know much about them but I got a manual and a motor!

    My question is regarding the frame. I've been looking at these david bird frames for about $300
    http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/sports...avid-bird.html


    and just wanted to know if there are any pros and cons regarding the frame stretch and drop ?

    They have 3 options for stretch 2", 4" and 6"

    and 4 options for drop 1" , 2 ", 3", 4"

    I Understand the concept of stretch and drop but I don't understand the pros and cons over the different selections.

    Is there any benefit to having a 6" stretch as opposed to 2" other than it gives you extra space around the oil tank?

    and whats the deal with the drop? is it just going to make it lower to the ground? any benefit other than style/cosmetic?


    I'm thinking a 6" stretch and a 2" drop for my selection.. but I've never sat on a bike so I dont know for sure what to go with.

    I'm 6'2" 215 lbs

  2. #2
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    My personal advice, if you have never ridden, find a stock bike and get some miles under your belt, lots of miles before riding anything raked or stretched or modified in any manner. The life you save maybe your own. Highly modified bikes are for highly experienced riders.

  3. #3

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    not to be a dick but... thats a terrible answer... I kinda want to punch you in the face


    the bike is basically going to be stock... except for the frame stretch and drop... These frames dont come with stock drop height and stretch length. I dont see what the big deal is... its not raked out or chopped or whatever.. or extreme in any way..

    look i need a frame to slap this motor in. I'm doing a cheap as possible build. I dont see how a frame that is 6 inches longer or a few inches lower to the ground than stock is gonna throw me off or confuse me or whatever being a noob... That is not some "extreme highly modified bike"

    david brids are the cheapest frames I can find. $300 bam... everything else is atleast double that.

    I'm already $1500 in on this project. just got my heads and cylinders back from the machine shop.

    but if you think I'm an idiot and insist that I put on some miles.. maybe ill put some miles on your wife.
    Last edited by polishfarmer; 04-18-2016 at 11:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    With your height you defenetly what a longer bike no pros or cons to the stretch other than getting it to fit you I'm short so I always go with a short stretch as far as drop pros a low bikes looks bitching cons ground clearance

  5. #5

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    cool, thats what i was thinking but wasn't sure...

    awesome really appreciate your answer. simple, sweet and to the point.

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    Rear stretch will straighten out the backbone line accordingly, and allow for moving the seat further back. Making a longer reach to bars and pegs. Sometimes necessitating pullback risers and such.
    Sprung saddles can bring the seat back up and forward as desired.

    Drop raises the rear axle, lowering overall center of gravity (a good thing) and creating cornering clearance challenges (manageable to a point). Plan on raising pipes and foot controls to avoid scraping. At the very least, run folding pegs!
    Drop also makes ass to ground reach shorter, good for those with a limited inseam. Again seat choices matter here too.

    Don't forget the front end rake and length are also factors here. Then there's up and out in the front loop to consider as well.
    Last edited by Sky; 04-18-2016 at 12:11 PM. Reason: clarity

  7. #7

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    interesting.

    yeah I have really long legs and a knee problem, so I think 6" stretch might help with that.

    so for the front end I don't think I wouldn't go past 2"under.. would 2" drop and 2" under front end create big cornering challenges? or would that still be minimal. 2" doesn't seem like alot in my mind.

    but what do you mean by "good for the with limited inseam." and "up and out in the front loop" ?

    also are there any cons to it being a bolt on frame and not welded? would it be wise to use thread lock on the bolts ?

    thanks

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    Limited inseam = short guy
    Front loop = part of the frame that loops around the engine
    Up and out refer to stretch in the downtubes and the backbone
    Yes use lock tight and grade 8 fasteners. Hardtails tend to loosen fasteners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polishfarmer View Post
    not to be a dick but... thats a terrible answer... I kinda want to punch you in the face


    the bike is basically going to be stock... except for the frame stretch and drop... These frames dont come with stock drop height and stretch length. I dont see what the big deal is... its not raked out or chopped or whatever.. or extreme in any way..

    look i need a frame to slap this motor in. I'm doing a cheap as possible build. I dont see how a frame that is 6 inches longer or a few inches lower to the ground than stock is gonna throw me off or confuse me or whatever being a noob... That is not some "extreme highly modified bike"

    david brids are the cheapest frames I can find. $300 bam... everything else is atleast double that.

    I'm already $1500 in on this project. just got my heads and cylinders back from the machine shop.

    but if you think I'm an idiot and insist that I put on some miles.. maybe ill put some miles on your wife.
    I like this guy.....

    So yeah, ground clearance and inseam are going to be your pros and cons. If you like to tear up the twisties and corner a lot on your iron, you're going to make it more difficult by widening your wheel base and ground clearance. If that's not how you ride, then its really not an issue. If you are a taller rider, you may particularly like the stretch you're putting on your frame. It'll be like moving from coach to first class where you're not cramped up.

    Then theres also the cosmetic thing- which is the heart of chops. Whatever looks sexy in your eyes.

    As far as bolt on vs weld on, well that's relative. Nice part is if you don't like what you've done, its an easy switch or swap out. Con would be just slightly less integrity and just the cosmetic look of it. I'd say go with the bolt on and when you're sold on what you like, go ahead and get it welded in the future. I think you'll find that you may be eager to try lots of different setups as you see how each handles.

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Up and Out...... Probably handle like crap if it didn't have that Sugar Bear fork on it....

  11. #11

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    Go buy a cheap trail bike and learn to ride in a field - it may well save your life as your learn how to change gears and brake etc properly in a low consequence environment plus you'll know what's it like and what to do if your bike starts sliding in turns etc and how to steer out of trouble (look at the gap not the trees) - those skills will prove to be invaluable when you need them not if - and the same advice I offer everyone

    If that advice makes you want to punch me in the face so be it but the previous advice by ncmc47 was sound but why listen to us that have been riding for 3+ decades on bikes from bone stock to fairly rad chops and still alive when you have never ridden yourself? And dont be such a disrespectful dick mentioning someone's wife when they have taken the time to try and offer you sage advice aimed at keeping you alive - at 6ft and 200lbs do you really need to prove you are a tough guy? I like this place as its about helping each other not threatening them and mentioning someone's ol lady like that is fucking disrespectful - talk like that in places where you'll ride your bike when its done and you may well get stomped or worse

    Now that's out of the way whilst doing so continue to build your bike but understand its not going to be cheap especially all the nickle and dime parts but if you take your time those early sporties look great when done right - how about some pics?
    Last edited by panheadpete; 04-18-2016 at 6:32 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by panheadpete View Post
    Go buy a cheap trail bike and learn to ride in a field - it may well save your life as your learn how to change gears and brake etc properly in a low consequence environment plus you'll know what's it like and what to do if your bike starts sliding in turns etc and how to steer out of trouble (look at the gap not the trees) - those skills will prove to be invaluable when you need them not if - and the same advice I offer everyone

    If that advice makes you want to punch me in the face so be it but the previous advice by ncmc47 was sound but why listen to us that have been riding for 3+ decades on bikes from bone stock to fairly rad chops and still alive when you have never ridden yourself? And dont be such a disrespectful dick mentioning someone's wife when they have taken the time to try and offer you sage advice aimed at keeping you alive - at 6ft and 200lbs do you really need to prove you are a tough guy? I like this place as its about helping each other not threatening them and mentioning someone's ol lady like that is fucking disrespectful - talk like that in places where you'll ride your bike when its done and you may well get stomped or worse

    Now that's out of the way whilst doing so continue to build your bike but understand its not going to be cheap especially all the nickle and dime parts but if you take your time those early sporties look great when done right - how about some pics?
    My dad used to say "a hard head will make a sore ass every single time"

  13. #13
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    tossing money into a sportster, ur to big for a dirt bike that aint werth shit
    Save up and buy a big twin

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeleyvision View Post
    My dad used to say "a hard head will make a sore ass every single time"

    my dad used to say "if you have a soft heart you better have a hard ass"


    hahahaha

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by panheadpete View Post
    Go buy a cheap trail bike and learn to ride in a field - it may well save your life as your learn how to change gears and brake etc properly in a low consequence environment plus you'll know what's it like and what to do if your bike starts sliding in turns etc and how to steer out of trouble (look at the gap not the trees) - those skills will prove to be invaluable when you need them not if - and the same advice I offer everyone

    If that advice makes you want to punch me in the face so be it but the previous advice by ncmc47 was sound but why listen to us that have been riding for 3+ decades on bikes from bone stock to fairly rad chops and still alive when you have never ridden yourself? And dont be such a disrespectful dick mentioning someone's wife when they have taken the time to try and offer you sage advice aimed at keeping you alive - at 6ft and 200lbs do you really need to prove you are a tough guy? I like this place as its about helping each other not threatening them and mentioning someone's ol lady like that is fucking disrespectful - talk like that in places where you'll ride your bike when its done and you may well get stomped or worse

    Now that's out of the way whilst doing so continue to build your bike but understand its not going to be cheap especially all the nickle and dime parts but if you take your time those early sporties look great when done right - how about some pics?

    NCMC basically told me to go fuck myself... yeah i get it, its a dangerous hobby. You are saying the same thing he said but are not being condescending about... which I can appreciate. I have no respect for peoples age or ego's... you can be a human thats helpful or one that puts up walls and gets in the way. I had a very specific question... but NCMC would have rather demonstrated his age and expertise by basically telling me i cant do something. I felt that maybe he was intimidated by the fact that I'm rebuilding my first bike with no knowledge and experience of ever being on a bike... and he'd rather scoff at me at talk to me like I'm 5 and he's my daddy...

    whatever... dont have time for bullshit. Everybody else gave me badass straight answers. Old people piss me off when they exhibit superiority... age is the greatest delusion to strike mankind... now if NCMC would have said what he said and then added in addition the information the rest of the guys provided or at least not disregard my post entirely then this would be a different story...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davestune View Post
    tossing money into a sportster, ur to big for a dirt bike that aint werth shit
    Save up and buy a big twin
    Oh..... I wouldn't say dat... !!

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    Last edited by Dragstews; 04-19-2016 at 11:23 AM.

  17. #17
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    I can understand where both of you are coming from but it is some sound advice I would definetly consider getting a cheap bouncy bike to get some experience . Hardtails are very unforgiven and will show there shortcoming in handeling especially in the rain I have been riding since my late teens and have some track experience with dirt and road bikes and a rigid in the rain scares the shit out of me just be awair of what you are getting into and have fun bro

  18. #18
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    on the stretch 2 things, 1 is it will give you more leg room and second you will be able to drop the clutch and keep it on the ground, the third thing is , if you want the bike lower you need to get the front end on if it is stock, with and jack bike level and measure then you can figure if you want to drop the bike od not remember you can lower your front end also , just keep in mind cornering, id say you be fine 2 inch down, I did a 6" stretch on a 67 tiger and mild drop and the bike handle pissa.
    You will have more room with the stretch.
    Your already tossin money out the window rebuilding the motor , hope ya stroked the pile, I had a 75 xlch I did that to, so I hope You plan on keeping it cause never get ya coin back.
    You could build a cool narrow bike with rabbits or some shit

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davestune View Post
    on the stretch 2 things, 1 is it will give you more leg room and second you will be able to drop the clutch and keep it on the ground, the third thing is , if you want the bike lower you need to get the front end on if it is stock, with and jack bike level and measure then you can figure if you want to drop the bike od not remember you can lower your front end also , just keep in mind cornering, id say you be fine 2 inch down, I did a 6" stretch on a 67 tiger and mild drop and the bike handle pissa.
    You will have more room with the stretch.
    Your already tossin money out the window rebuilding the motor , hope ya stroked the pile, I had a 75 xlch I did that to, so I hope You plan on keeping it cause never get ya coin back.
    You could build a cool narrow bike with rabbits or some shit

    what do you mean by pissa? from what I understand that could mean either good or bad ?

    so heres the thing i haven't bought the front end or the frame yet... thats why im tryin to figure out the dimensions.

    the drop lowers the center of gravity right? so wouldn't it corner a little better with lower center of gravity? but not too much so there is still some clearance. Thats why I was thinkin 2" because it would still give me some clearance, have a lower center of gravity and look pretty sick

    If there is a 2" drop and the front end is 2" under would that make it even lower than if the front end was stock ?

    yeah i was thinkin rabbits or some biltwell H bars.

    also def plan on keepin it... gonna ride it to the gates of Valhalla....

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    Motorcycles are like pussy. While it might be nice to keep your first forever (++ for home dungeons) what you think you want before you get laid may not be what pleases you later.

    Study chopper frame geometry then make a dimensioned sketch before ordering parts since money is hard to unspend. Best is to find an existing chop you can look at and measure. There's a fair amount of geometry homework involved.

    http://www.chopperhandbook.com/ has some explanations.

    You could ask for "tall Sporty chop owners" (engine version is irrelevant to ergonomics) to post pics and how they did theirs.

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