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  1. #21
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    Now to make the holes for the seat plungers round again. I start with this:
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    After a fair amount of filing:
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    And finish with a drill. It blends nicely into the seat tubes' internal diameter now.
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    And now file / grind everything to give a more rounded edge.
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 10-31-2021 at 9:30 AM.

  2. #22
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    I bought a bunch of parts for the plunger seat system.
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    Here's the diagram
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    As soon as I started trying to fit the parts a big problem appeared. See these bushing sleeves?
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    They just won't work with a 74 and later strap frame. They're too big in diameter and there isn't enough meat in the strap area to make them fit. Not only that, the springs and the ends of the plunger shafts are too big to fit in the frame's seat tubes. WTF, I said Well, after doing a bit of homework, the numbnuts engineers at the motor company reduced the size of the seat tubes from 13/16" ID in the old cast lug frames to 3/4" ID in the strap frames. Why reduce it by a six-fucking-teenth of a fucking inch? To save a few cents on tubing? Whatever...
    I can turn down the ends of the plungers by a sixteenth easily enough. But the stock style springs can't be used. I need to find similar rate springs in a smaller diameter. As for the bushing sleeves, I'm just going to run flanged bushings right in the frame without sleeves.
    Last edited by alfajuj; 10-31-2021 at 9:31 AM.

  3. #23
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    Here's the solo seat setup mocked up so that I can locate and tack on the IH style seat frame tabs I bought. You can see the flanged bushings.
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  4. #24
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    Now it's time to fab the webbing to make it look more like an old cast style IH frame. I'm also making some corner reinforcing gusset pieces for around the strap area.
    By the way, if you haven't tried a pneumatic 2" angle grinder with a cutting disc, they're great for this kind of work.
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    And here it is tacked up
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 10-31-2021 at 9:38 AM.

  5. #25
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    I'm worried you may encounter alignment issues attempting to place the rear tire dead center in the frame (perfectly aligned with the front tire)

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneuptom View Post
    I'm worried you may encounter alignment issues attempting to place the rear tire dead center in the frame (perfectly aligned with the front tire)
    You make a good point there, but there are some fixes for that if that problem does arise. I haven't specifically checked that yet, but I have good reason to believe that it will be ok. Here's why: the rear motor mount I'm using is an Ironhead rear motor mount (16202-67) which mates with the IH rear frame section. (the Evo rear motor mount is different but the actual bolt positions on the cases are exactly the same.) 4 speed Evo Sportster and late Ironhead cases are the same in that area. I can confirm that with the sprocket alignment of the Evo engine with the IH rear sprocket. So the rear frame alignment with the case to the rear wheel and sprocket are good, and the front frame alignment with the engine relative to the front end is set by the existing Evo parts. I'm using an Ironhead front hub with the Evo 39mm front forks, which are wider, so if there is any adjustment needed, I can do it by spacing the front wheel to one side or other.
    Last edited by alfajuj; 10-31-2021 at 10:45 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfajuj View Post
    You make a good point there, but there are some fixes for that if that problem does arise. I haven't specifically checked that yet, but I have good reason to believe that it will be ok. Here's why: the rear motor mount I'm using is an Ironhead rear motor mount (16202-67) which mates with the IH rear frame section. (the Evo rear motor mount is different but the actual bolt positions on the cases are exactly the same.) 4 speed Evo Sportster and late Ironhead cases are the same in that area. I can confirm that with the sprocket alignment of the Evo engine with the IH rear sprocket. So the rear frame alignment with the case to the rear wheel and sprocket are good, and the front frame alignment with the engine relative to the front end is set by the existing Evo parts. I'm using an Ironhead front hub with the Evo 39mm front forks, which are wider, so if there is any adjustment needed, I can do it by spacing the front wheel to one side or other.
    You are much braver man than I am to run the front tire offset from the headstock center. Harley finds it acceptable to dog-track the rear though. How much?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneuptom View Post
    You are much braver man than I am to run the front tire offset from the headstock center. Harley finds it acceptable to dog-track the rear though. How much?
    Good point about keeping the front wheel centered on the headstock. That is the plan. I had forgotten that the Ironhead swingarm does have provision for side to side adjustment, so that will be the place to compensate for any alignment problems. It's kind of cool that the design allows for adjustment. Anyway I'm hoping that the rear mount will index the rear end well enough without adjustment being necessary because to adjust it, you need the engine out of the frame. I'll be double checking all that when I put the wheels on.
    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-01-2021 at 12:18 AM.

  9. #29
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    I'm getting a little bit out of chronological order now, but I though I'd talk about fitting the Ironhead XLH battery box and oil tank. When the oil tank and battery box are mounted up the way they would be normally on an IH, the oil tank interferes with the Evo rear cylinder.
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    The starter on an IH is smaller diameter and located further back than on an Evo. It's just way different. This bracket 66480-67 is supposed to bolt to the top of the transmission case (in the location where the transmission breather is on the Evo) to support the battery box and the two rubber isolation mounts that hold up the front tab of the battery box on one side and to the bottom bracket of the oil tank on the other. Well the Evo starter makes it utterly impossible.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here you can see the tabs on the oil tank and the battery box, and how the Denso starter isn't going to work with the IH bracket system.

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    I had to find some other way to support the battery box. So I used some rubber isolation mounts with the stud removed from one side, and had one rest on the inner primary top and another resting on the starter.
    The bottom bracket of the oil tank just had nowhere to go and was interfering with the starter. If it were possible to put a kicker on a 4 speed Evo, I could just get rid of the starter, and it would work. I guess if I were working with a 5 speed I could have (and would have) done that.

    I ended up removing the tab from the bottom of the oil tank and and adjusting everything back to clear the cylinder
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 07-20-2022 at 7:44 AM.

  10. #30
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    I'd like to talk about a mistake I've made due to my lack of knowledge at the time. When I was fitting the swingarm to the rear frame, No matter what I did, it was interfering with the case on the left side, even after the raised area where the stator wires came through was ground completely away and the case in that area had been ground down to fully flat. I still had to end up grinding down the rectangle section of the swingarm pivot bolt nut to get it to fit.
    Of course this is the area of the cases that is quite different between 4 speed alternator cases and generator cases.

    After seeing That the IH generator cases actually have a recess for the pivot bolt nut to slip into, it's no wonder I was having to grind so much away! That was a mistake. I should have emulated the recess in my cases by building up the inside with more welding and milling a groove there, and left the pivot bolt nut alone. The case recess is supposed to hold the pivot bolt nut from turning so that you can tighten it from the right side. The way mine is now, the only way to loosen the swingarm pivot bolt is to remove the engine from the frame. Oops. It will still work this way, it'll just be inconvenient.

    This is the pivot bolt nut:
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    This is the recess that I should have made in my left case:
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    The inside needs to built up, too, because the recess is pretty deep.
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-03-2021 at 8:55 AM.

  11. #31
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    By the way, here's a nice picture I found of a 1975-76 XLH showing how the bracket that supports the battery box and oil tank goes. It fits between the solenoid and the starter (removed in the picture). It's right where the middle of the starter motor is on an Evo.
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  12. #32
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    Now the next challenge is how to actuate the rear drum brake. Here's a rundown of the different ways the motor company did it:

    1952-1974: The brake linkage has a cross over shaft which runs in bushings in the frame with the brake pedal on the left side. Obviously the shifter comes out of the right side of the transmission and passes through a bushing in the cam cover.
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    This is not such a good plan for an Evo Sportster for a lot of reasons. Since Evos shift on the left, You'd need to somehow actuate the brake on the right. I'm sure some creative thinking could lead to a linkage system for this, but the chain and the exhaust are really in the way. So I passed on this method.

    1975-1976: This system had the right footrest incorporate a cable operated rear brake pedal, with an awkward crossover shift linkage where brake linkage used to be. So the shift lever still came out of the right side of the transmission but the linkage was hidden under the sprocket cover. So using the 75-76 cable operated system is tempting for the Evo project. It would just require fabricating a mount for the footrest bracket on the frame. (75-76 still mounted the footrests on splined stubs on the frame). This would probably be the easiest way to do it.
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  13. #33
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    But the method I finally decided upon is not the easiest, but I do think that it's the best.
    That would be the 1977-78 method.

    Here the shift lever shaft comes out on the left side through the primary, like it does on an Evo. They used the remnants of the old right side shift to put in a brake pedal operating shaft 42549-75 which was suspended by a bushing in the right case on one side and the bushing in the cam cover on the other. The splined end is for the brake lever. And the shaft pulls the brake cable.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    There's now an additional inner sprocket cover 34893-75 which holds the cable and the brake light switch.
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    Now the only problem is that there is no such bushing in the cam cover of an Evo and the remnant of the old shift lever shaft bushing in the right case is now just a locating dowel. But at least it's still centered on the shift lever shaft which is the same exact location as the 1977 brake operating shaft.

    Evo Sportster locating dowel:
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    Evo Sportster cam cover:
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-05-2021 at 8:33 AM.

  14. #34
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    Here's what the 1977-78 cases should look like with the bushing for the brake pedal operating shaft
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    And the cam cover with the bushing for the other side of the brake pedal operating shaft
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    So that's what we need to emulate with the Evo parts

  15. #35
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    So here's the part of the right case that needs to be machined to fit the bushing. I turned the inner side of the operating shaft to a slightly smaller diameter so that I could use a smaller bushing which would leave more meat in the case in that area.

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    Bushing installed
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    It has to be aligned with the bushing in the cam cover

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    Needs some filing
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    One piece of advice for this machining is to do the final fitting for the operating shaft with the crankshaft in place. Since there are 2 dowels on the Evo cam cover and we've taken one of them away, you need to have the crankshaft pinion there to make doubly sure that your cam cover is perfectly aligned. I had thought that 1 dowel plus all the screws would be enough for alignment, but they weren't. When I assembled it with the crank in place, the operating shaft got all tight. I had to final fit it with valve grinding paste to get it to move smoothly.
    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-04-2021 at 1:45 AM.

  16. #36

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    I really like what your doing and thanks for all the pics

  17. #37
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    Very cool. I came across the Inuchopper blog before and was trying to figure out how he crammed that evo engine into the ironhead frame. Mystery solved.

  18. #38
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    For the 1977-78 brake setup you need the inner sprocket cover 34893-75 along with the cable and brake light switch.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You also need the cable type brake side plate 41662-75
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    I was going to use my Evo sprocket cover and just grind down the inner ribbing to make clearance for the inner sprocket cover. But with all the disc brake master cylinder mounting stuff on it, it would look half-assed. So I've decided to buy the 1977-78 XLCH sprocket cover 34850-77. That will look a lot cleaner.
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    I've already got the 77-78 right footrest on the way.
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    That should make for a nice clean installation
    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-04-2021 at 2:25 AM.

  19. #39
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    Well, here's the frame all welded up and painted.
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    And here she is with the case installed
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    And the solo seat installed
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    Last edited by alfajuj; 11-04-2021 at 8:22 PM.

  20. #40
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    I bought this internal throttle off the bay and was going to install it on some Biltwell bars I had.
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    But then I scored some original 1960's Laconia (aka Sport) bars.
    These particular bars are the type that have the spark advance side welded solid and only the right throttle side working. The right side did not have a hole for a starter button or a kill switch, so they most likely would be from 1970-72 XLCH, since those had coil ignition with automatic advance. Or I guess they could be from a 1965-67 XLH, since those didn't have a starter button yet and had automatic spark advance. Either way, they're perfect for my purposes.

    Here's a shot the handlebar section of the 1978 XL parts manual showing details of the up to 1973 bars:
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    The bars came without the guts of the internal throttle. The only things still in there were the original crusty throttle control coil (cable sheath) with the end bobbin (numbers 57 and 58 from the diagram above) held in with a set screw (50) but without the wire inside. There was no plunger (56), roller pin (11), rollers (51), spring (46), end screw (52), or grip sleeve spiral (47). Well I started pricing these parts out and they're pretty spendy. But then, even if the grip sleeve spiral were present, I couldn't have used it anyway, because it would have been a "push" spiral (56220-53) for a Linkert or a Tillotson carb, and of course I would need a pull spiral for my Evo's CV40 Keihin carb. Here's a pic from the internet showing the difference between push and pull spirals. The 56220-58 is pull and the 56220-53 is push.
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    Then I got to looking again at the internal throttle kit I had bought earlier. Lo and behold, the design of this kit is just like the old Harley internal throttle. The smaller diameter tube with the slot from this kit is about the same as the end of my handlebar. I got lucky here, because most of the internal throttle kits out there are a different design from the old Harley type. I tried its plunger and it fit right into my handlebar! Even the end screw was the same thread as my bars! Could it be that for once something in this project is fortuitous and easy?
    Nah! Not so fast:
    When I tried to slip on the grip sleeve spiral, its internal diameter was about 0.4mm smaller than the outer diameter of that part of my bars. So I started honing it and I eventually got it to fit. But then I found that there was about 17mm of end play once it's installed. (if you pull outward on the sleeve it pulls out 17mm until the internal shoulder is stopped by the end screw) If I had the original Harley spring 56216-53, it probably would have fit perfectly. But I decided that a tubular spacer would be good enough, so I turned one up on a lathe. And now it fits fine and saved myself some money in the process.
    Last edited by alfajuj; 07-20-2022 at 7:50 AM.

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