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  1. #1
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    Default 4spd ratchet adjustment issue. 84 shovelhead.

    I have a recently rebuild 4spd ratchet trans I popped into my 84 shovelhead build. The trans is solid and all new seals and bearings, totally rebuilt. Here is my issue:

    The clutch hub has the common problem of the entire hub moving that 1/16th or so of an inch when I am engaging it. AKA, as soon as I shift into 1st at idle she wants to start creeping forward on me. Finding neutral isnt the worst, but I have felt better on 4spds.

    now, we got a new one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1914463...lpid=82&chn=ps because the springs that had been on the previous one were clearly worn and not providing enough tension on the studs to keep the hub in place. sweet. new one goes on, and the springs that are bigger with the new one don't fit over the three studs on my clutch hub.

    Friends solution: pull everything out of the hub and gently file the studs down a cunt hair so that we can slip the new clips on the studs and call it a day. hopefully it wont move. but who knows?

    My solution: before I start anything in that direction, does anyone here have advice as to a solution? possibly buying a different retainer or "tamer" set up? The transmission is dead set aligned with a open primary.Its a 3 finger clutch hub.

    thanks in advance. I dont mind spending a little extra money to do this right, I just wanna reach out and hear some ideas, if possible.

  2. #2
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    Ok what springs on the new one are you talking about? Are you talking about the three clips?

  3. #3
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    Step 1. Buy Rivera Primo Pro clutch

    Step 2. Install said clutch

    Step 3. Never have to think about it again

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by andri View Post
    step 1. Buy rivera primo pro clutch

    step 2. Install said clutch

    step 3. Never have to think about it again

    yup

  5. #5
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    Yeah the three circle clips that come with the kit. the new ones inside diameter are a cunt hair to tight and wont slip onto the studs.

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    I wouldn't go filing anything. When something doesn't seem to fit correctly, you're either doing it wrong or have the wrong parts. I say this after ignoring my own advice and costing myself a $150 trans headache last week.

    First question: Are the new lock rings the same exact style as the ones in that picture (snap rings like pictured or side mounting circlips)? If so, are you using the correct tool? Snap ring pliers to spread the diameter? They still won't fit on the stud? Were the old lock rings the same style? My BDL setup doesn't have snap rings, it has side mount circlips that you push onto the stud at the groove.


    Sorry if this is rudimentary but sometimes you need to start with basics and not assume what's happening on the other side of the keyboard.

  7. #7
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    With the retainer, you don't use the springs... you use circlips, like boomboomthumpthumpwhat'sthatracket said.

    Are you trying to run both simultaneously?

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    Also should be said .....

    Check the tracking of the primary chain/belt...

    If it's off by much, the tammer is going to have accelerated ware occurring....

  9. #9
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    The above advice is dead on all but the rivera primo clutch.. Well that is if you don't mind spending a lot of money for nothing.... I have no problem fixing a Harley clutch to work just fine....

    With those clips get you a pair of snap ring pliers. Don't listen to your friend on anything else. He is a butcher......and has no idea what he's talking about.....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboomthump View Post
    I wouldn't go filing anything. When something doesn't seem to fit correctly, you're either doing it wrong or have the wrong parts. I say this after ignoring my own advice and costing myself a $150 trans headache last week.

    First question: Are the new lock rings the same exact style as the ones in that picture (snap rings like pictured or side mounting circlips)? If so, are you using the correct tool? Snap ring pliers to spread the diameter? They still won't fit on the stud? Were the old lock rings the same style? My BDL setup doesn't have snap rings, it has side mount circlips that you push onto the stud at the groove.


    Sorry if this is rudimentary but sometimes you need to start with basics and not assume what's happening on the other side of the keyboard.
    I am going to pull my clutch back apart today and try it by myself, sometimes when you got three hands trying three ways, it never works.

    The new clips I have are identical to the previous side mount circlips, just a bit beefier and obviously tighter over the studs.

    I have the retainer all the way down to A with the smallest amount of play I can find. thanks for the advice I will keep this updated.

  11. #11
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    OK, well that at least clarifies one thing because the eBay link had snap rings.


    For the circlips (again not sure how you're trying to shove it on) I like to use long reach needle nose pliers. The 90* bend ones are great. Line up the tips of the circlip and then pop it on. The extra length of the long reach pliers give you more leverage to pop the clips on easier than using short ones or trying to push it on with the edge of a flat head screwdriver (which seems to be how most folks try to get them on).


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-Long-Reac...-/320954328613

    Last edited by boomboomthump; 01-28-2015 at 11:05 AM.

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    awesome info. I really appreciate it. I know motors well enough and most things that come with, but trans stuff has me kinda up shit creek.

    Gonna try and get the clips on with my clip pliers i bought.

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    First off if your hub is moving there's something way wrong! I think you mean the basket walks when the clutch is disengaged.
    There are quite a few subtle adjustments on the stock 36-84 clutch.
    I have enumerated them on this forum before. Do you have the manual? Is everything stock?
    Belts, alloy pressure plates, etc. Even lever/pedal actuation can vary from setup to set up.
    to be continued....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    The above advice is dead on all but the rivera primo clutch.. Well that is if you don't mind spending a lot of money for nothing.... I have no problem fixing a Harley clutch to work just fine....

    With those clips get you a pair of snap ring pliers. Don't listen to your friend on anything else. He is a butcher......and has no idea what he's talking about.....
    tattoo, i feel the same way. a stock clutch set up properly is just fine.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    First off if your hub is moving there's something way wrong! I think you mean the basket walks when the clutch is disengaged.
    There are quite a few subtle adjustments on the stock 36-84 clutch.
    I have enumerated them on this forum before. Do you have the manual? Is everything stock?
    Belts, alloy pressure plates, etc. Even lever/pedal actuation can vary from setup to set up.
    to be continued....

    I just re-read the original post again (I had a few times already) and I think the first few times he was saying "springs" he was referring to the clips. That had me confused.

    I agree with you and I think this is just an adjustment issue. The clutch hub is what gets locked to the shaft. As long as it is installed/torqued properly and the lock washer on the clutch hub nut, there is no way the clutch hub has any side play.

    I think the 1/16" movement he is referring to (not an actual measurement I'll bet) is simply the end play between the clutch hub and the clutch basket. There should be a very slight end play to allow the hub and needle bearings to spin freely and I'm guessing he's just calling it 1/16". I'm also guessing that he is just assuming that is the problem when this is in all likelihood a clutch adjustment issue.


    Also agree that the stock clutch and similar setups work just fine and there's no reason to go out and spend $400+ on a new clutch unless of course you're looking for something with a better feel. The Primo pro clutch and BDL competitor clutch are both buttery smooth and you can feel a difference at the lever.

  16. #16
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    I think my clutch basket is walking out when its engaged ( lever to the grip) causing my plates to grab, in turn pulling me as I shift into 1st and or whatever gear I am in. I thought this might be caused by the fact that the old retainer clips were smaller and worn, but like I said we couldnt figure out how to get the new ones to fit over the studs without modification.

    My 3'' tracks straight as hell and the bike shifts ok, sometimes the clutch willl grab as I downshift coming up to a stop sign and grab as the lever is to the grip. other times it downshifts just fine and doesnt grab and I can shift all the way to 1st with no issues.

    I havent had a chance to pull it apart since I have been busy, but I do appreciate the responses guys. tomorrow afternoon I will be free to tear into it.

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    I 've used the style of tamer you are trying and found the following problems, (1) this retainer comes in two styles, one for 5 stud and one for 3 stud clutch hubs, if you have the wrong one all of the snap rings won't lock in their grooves. (2) these made of plastic and once they warm up they will flex enough to let the clutch basket walk even if they are set up with the right play. I prefer to use V-Twin part 18-1112 it is made of aluminum, and stays where you set it (you can get it at K&S customz.com). Also, make sure your clutch steels aren't warped or your clutch will drag no matter what ( I prefer to use new steels without the anti rattlers, they seem to release better) lastly, install a "big fix kit" V-Twin 20-0229 to help control the basket movement. Whenever I do all of this together and adjust it properly I never have any problems.

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    Alright guys here is my update:

    I took off the old C clips and replaced them with the thicker ones. Same issues but not as bad.

    Went down to our shop here and my parts guy pointed me towards what panheadjess was posting. So I pulled it all back apart and put one of these kits on there:
    http://www.motoparthub.com/BF_1_Belt...8lkaAg8T8P8HAQ

    Same issue. As soon as I shift into first even with the bike off, the clutch pulled to the bars, its still dragging and engaging.

    my question, mind me asking possibly a stupid question. Should I be running the big fix I just posted the link too, then the plastic retainer over that super thin shim?

    thanks again guys

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by panheadjess View Post
    I 've used the style of tamer you are trying and found the following problems, (1) this retainer comes in two styles, one for 5 stud and one for 3 stud clutch hubs, if you have the wrong one all of the snap rings won't lock in their grooves. (2) these made of plastic and once they warm up they will flex enough to let the clutch basket walk even if they are set up with the right play. I prefer to use V-Twin part 18-1112 it is made of aluminum, and stays where you set it (you can get it at K&S customz.com). Also, make sure your clutch steels aren't warped or your clutch will drag no matter what ( I prefer to use new steels without the anti rattlers, they seem to release better) lastly, install a "big fix kit" V-Twin 20-0229 to help control the basket movement. Whenever I do all of this together and adjust it properly I never have any problems.
    would be curious to hear your opinion now. thanks for the help guys.

  20. #20
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    The big fix kit you installed keeps the clutch basket from wobbling when the clutch is released, the plastic retainer is supposed to keep the basket from walking out when the clutch is released. I tried one years ago and it was better than nothing but doesn't work nearly as good as the aluminum retainer. What you're trying to do is keep an air gap between the clutches and the steels when the clutch is released, if your clutch basket wobbles you lose air gap, if it walks out you lose air gap, if your steels are even slightly warped they act like a diaphragm spring and take up your air gap. The reason I like the steels without the anti rattlers is they hold against the dogs in the basket and rub against the friction plates causing drag. If the dogs in the basket or studs on the clutch hub have grooves on them it causes the same problem. The adjustment of the clutch has to be right or you won't have enough air gap. back off the clutch cable completely, run the adjuster on the pressure plate in until you feel it touch the throw out bearing and then back off 1/8 to 1/4 turn hold it there and tighten the jam nut. The less you back the adjustment off after it touches the throw out bearing, the more air gap you'll have, but you also need to adjust it more often. don't ever let it get to zero clearance or you will burn up your throw out bearing. Lastly make sure your clutch plates are completely dry and free of oil or they will drag. As you can see anything that removes your air gap will cause the problem so you have to do all of these modifications to get good reliable clutch release. When you set the tension on your springs set them by the manual and then pull in the clutch handle and check to see that the pressure plate comes off of the clutches evenly all the way around. If it does not, adjust the springs until it does.

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