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  1. #1
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    Default VIN # Stamping (it's illegal...)

    I have two KZ400 frames. One with a title, but a bent backbone. One without a title, but VIN check comes back clean (not stolen). I've been doing some Googling, but can't find any definitive answers... what's up with me destroying the titled frame and punching title'd VIN into the other frame?

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    How foolish of me not to search CC as well, there's a few posts saying it would be quite illegal. Dammit.

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    What I have seen in the past is,, A line stamped in over the old # and the new next to it. You would also hold on to the bad frame for legal reasons. If the #'s on donor frame are good, smartest route would be apply for a title for those #'s..

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    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePie68 View Post
    If the #'s on donor frame are good, smartest route would be apply for a title for those #'s..
    Yeah, but that is basically impossible at the IL DMV. Just trying to get some value out of my titled bent frame.

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    cut-n-swap? i know on my kz1000 its stamped on the neck, but i'm not sure where else. if its in the same place, why not just cut and swap the vin parts? if it gets questioned say it was to "straighten it" or something. or a "repair" of sorts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McGreggerson View Post
    cut-n-swap? i know on my kz1000 its stamped on the neck, but i'm not sure where else. if its in the same place, why not just cut and swap the vin parts? if it gets questioned say it was to "straighten it" or something. or a "repair" of sorts.
    I'm not that handy with a welder. I'm actually hoping to sell these 400s and a couple other bikes and spend the money on running 220 to my garage and buying a TIG.

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    of course it's "illegal".

    but so is a lot of shit. that law is to keep people from stealing shit and stamping VINs. you're not doing anything shady except violating that law. and the spirit of that law is to prevent thieving restamp operations.

    i would do it. but i also repaint my new license plates for my old bikes. that's illegal, but it hurts no one and cops don't care.

    i choose not to follow laws that are meant for jerks.

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    It's only illegal if you get caught. The average cop writing you a ticket for speeding isn't going to care about VIN numbers...

    Like CRF said, I say do the deed. Good luck, chop on.

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    If I were to go this route, are those metal stamps on eBay for ~$20 pretty easy to use? Just whack the back with a hammer? No need to heat up the metal?

  10. #10
    ARBY
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    I am not aware of any state that allows an owner to alter, replace or tamper with a vehicle identification number. Grafting a neck with numbers to a frame that originally had other numbers is a crime in most if not all states. Stamping numbers from one frame onto another frame is not legal even if both frames belong to you and are NOT stolen.

    I can't believe that people will advertize to buy or sell necks and titles to be used fraudulently and then spout off about it on the internet like law enforcement isn't watching and reading the posts. What an easy case for auto theft det.'s to make. But hey, you might get away with it. Just remember, the jails are full of people who thought they were gonna get away with it. Maybe you'll get lucky and only get your bike confiscated, towed and impounded. Then after 6 months or so the state will "no file" and drop charges. Then you can get your bike back after it sat outside and you pay towing and storage fees- shouldn't be more than a few grand. Then you can roll down the road in another county, get stopped and do it all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OakBehringer View Post
    If I were to go this route, are those metal stamps on eBay for ~$20 pretty easy to use? Just whack the back with a hammer? No need to heat up the metal?
    a heavy hand and a 5 pound sledge should do you right.

    i'm not sure what stamp kit you're looking at, but try to get one that allows you to set all the numbers and letters in a line so it's straight.

    i'm not sure how long your vin is. you should see my 1950's triumphs... there's like 8 characters on those bitches.

    oh and to further bolster your confidence. i get pulled over a lot living in HB. lots of fix it tickets. never once had a cop look at my vin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARBY View Post
    I am not aware of any state that allows an owner to alter, replace or tamper with a vehicle identification number. Grafting a neck with numbers to a frame that originally had other numbers is a crime in most if not all states. Stamping numbers from one frame onto another frame is not legal even if both frames belong to you and are NOT stolen.

    I can't believe that people will advertize to buy or sell necks and titles to be used fraudulently and then spout off about it on the internet like law enforcement isn't watching and reading the posts. What an easy case for auto theft det.'s to make. But hey, you might get away with it. Just remember, the jails are full of people who thought they were gonna get away with it. Maybe you'll get lucky and only get your bike confiscated, towed and impounded. Then after 6 months or so the state will "no file" and drop charges. Then you can get your bike back after it sat outside and you pay towing and storage fees- shouldn't be more than a few grand. Then you can roll down the road in another county, get stopped and do it all over again.
    whoa. thought i was on the jockey journal for a minute.

    nice hypothetical punishment to scare the shit out of the guy.

    the likely scenario is that he'll never get caught and no one will ever know. i doubt you have ever seen your above post play out like that. where as we can all attest to the fact that vins are never scrutinized.

    you're pretty hard on a guy that's trying to get rolling on a budget.

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    The hammer and punch type of engraving has a tendency to deform the metal underneath it.

    I'd figure out a more effective method, bc it ain't gonna look stock if you go that route.

    I say cut the neck out and graft it in for a good titled frame. You want more rake anyway right?

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    If your going to cut and graft anything why not do the back bone that's bent, then you don't have to worry about any thing. Especially since / if you are looking to sell the bike in now or in the future. The hammer approach can not look stock, and you would need to remove the old vin.

  15. #15
    Madav8tr
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRFyou View Post
    whoa. thought i was on the jockey journal for a minute.

    nice hypothetical punishment to scare the shit out of the guy.

    the likely scenario is that he'll never get caught and no one will ever know. i doubt you have ever seen your above post play out like that. where as we can all attest to the fact that vins are never scrutinized.

    you're pretty hard on a guy that's trying to get rolling on a budget.
    Vins are checked quite often especially at rally's and other places where large numbers of motorcyclists gather. The simple fact that the guy is on a budget is no reason to try and induce him to commit a felony. One that may bite him on the ass 2-3 owners down the line AFTER he sells the bike. At Barber motorsports park a few years back, the birmingham police department was roaming around the parking lot checking VIN's and seized 5-6 bikes the 1st day. Stuff like that happens quite frequently. Also, those guys are trained to know what the VIN's are supposed to look like and they can spot a fraud. Is it really worth it in the big picture? I mean we are talking about a KZ400 and I can't see one being worth the potential trouble, regardless of my budget.

  16. #16
    ARBY
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRFyou View Post
    whoa. thought i was on the jockey journal for a minute.

    nice hypothetical punishment to scare the shit out of the guy.

    the likely scenario is that he'll never get caught and no one will ever know. i doubt you have ever seen your above post play out like that. where as we can all attest to the fact that vins are never scrutinized.

    you're pretty hard on a guy that's trying to get rolling on a budget.
    Not trying to scare him. Bikers are big and tough and don't scare easy, right? Just telling him the truth/FACTS, then he can make his own choice. I think that's better than telling him it's OK and then laughing at him if or when he gets whacked. Where's the brotherhood?

    No one gets caught? Never plays out like that? That'll be your secret. Get out in the real world more often and see what life is like.

    Again, not trying to be hard on him by dashing his hopes and dreams. Just giving him the info to help him avoid loosing all he has. I'm also not trying to make decisions for him. Life is choices, some are good some are not so good but we live with them all. It's easy to advise people to do the wrong thing when there are no consequesces in it for you. Isn't it???
    Last edited by ARBY; 06-17-2011 at 6:10 AM.

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    I don't know if this helps or not but my buddy looked into stamping his vin into the neck of his xs650 cause on some XS650 (or maybe all of them) they put a sticker on the neck with the vin. Well the bike is almost 30-40 years old and the sticker is falling off. In VA they want you to have a state trooper come to were ever you are going to stamp it and witness the correct vin being stamped into the neck of the bike. Cost something like $100.00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richf View Post
    I don't know if this helps or not but my buddy looked into stamping his vin into the neck of his xs650 cause on some XS650 (or maybe all of them) they put a sticker on the neck with the vin. Well the bike is almost 30-40 years old and the sticker is falling off. In VA they want you to have a state trooper come to were ever you are going to stamp it and witness the correct vin being stamped into the neck of the bike. Cost something like $100.00.
    I'm pretty sure the vin is on a sticker and stamped on my 650 ('73).

    I've already decided that I'm not going to stamp the VIN since the mallet/punch style won't look stock, if the did, I'd do it, and no one would be the wiser, but it's not worth the gamble to me.

    Thanks for all the advice!

    - Adam

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    Default Etching VIN into aftermarket frame

    I'm thinking about picking up an aftermarket frame for my 69 Ironhead engine. Does anyone know about doing something like this? Legal issues? smooth sailing?

    Thanks

  20. #20
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    yer 69 should title off the cases on the motor. not the frame, so you shouldnt need to mess with stamping numbers on an aftermarket frame

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