Is this a real drop seat panhead frame

[Norrimichlson]

Hello guys,

I really need your help on this one. I sort of bought a drop seat frame, like I told the guy I would buy it if it's genuine. As some of you know I'm from Germany, rules are....well german so very strickt and I want to build a new bike. Well in fact it will be an old bike, but I'll basically start fresh with an old frame. However I found a drop seat panhead frame with german papers, which is nice, the only problem is it has to be an original so I won't run into any problems in the future and i dont really know if thats the case, but there are two things that worry me. I'll post some pictures as well, but the main two things I worry about are:

A: The neck is missing this sort of nob that these frames typically have I marked it for you guys

B: The pieces, I don't know the correct term, where you like attach the shock absorbers have casting nubers on the wrong side

The second pic, where you see the castings, they are on the right handside, which is odd beacause i know, that they are typically on the left ?! I know that there is a number 10 on the right side but not the long sequence of numbers.

Can this be an original frame still, like maybe those really early frames had different castings or something? I know ''the nob'' was missing on knucklehead frames but it seems odd. Im 90% sure from the pictures, that the frame isn't original, still I know there are some real pros on this site so maybe theres still hope.


All this german law bullshit really stresses me out you can't imagine how bad it is for people like me not beeing able to build their bikes how they want them to. As bike builder and Harley enthusiast in germany there are days you just want to cry, really makes me wish I were in the states

Anyways thats all I have to say

Be well guys and thanks for your help



EDIT: The second picture of the frame without color is a reverence only picture 1 and 3 are of the frame I am talking about and buying!

[Tattooo]

It looks right to me. It could be a flatside Shovel frame, is there any numbers stamped on the lower part of the top motor mount???????

[oneuptom]

Hello guys,

I really need your help on this one. I sort of bought a drop seat frame, like I told the guy I would buy it if it's genuine. As some of you know I'm from Germany, rules are....well german so very strickt and I want to build a new bike. Well in fact it will be an old bike, but I'll basically start fresh with an old frame. However I found a drop seat panhead frame with german papers, which is nice, the only problem is it has to be an original so I won't run into any problems in the future and i dont really know if thats the case, but there are two things that worry me. I'll post some pictures as well, but the main two things I worry about are:

A: The neck is missing this sort of nob that these frames typically have I marked it for you guys

B: The pieces, I don't know the correct term, where you like attach the shock absorbers have casting nubers on the wrong side

The second pic, where you see the castings, they are on the right handside, which is odd beacause i know, that they are typically on the left ?! I know that there is a number 10 on the right side but not the long sequence of numbers.

Can this be an original frame still, like maybe those really early frames had different castings or something? I know ''the nob'' was missing on knucklehead frames but it seems odd. Im 90% sure from the pictures, that the frame isn't original, still I know there are some real pros on this site so maybe theres still hope.


All this german law bullshit really stresses me out you can't imagine how bad it is for people like me not beeing able to build their bikes how they want them to. As bike builder and Harley enthusiast in germany there are days you just want to cry, really makes me wish I were in the states

Anyways thats all I have to say

Be well guys and thanks for your help

The frame is for real according to Palmer... My numbers are right side up and on the left. I don't have the book open so I can't say if your frame is early or later with any certainty, just that it's the real deal!.. Good luck!

edit: My frame has a 14 on the other side so taking a guess your frame is earlier??

[Norrimichlson]

not as far as I can see, I know there is a Letter number code, which states when the frame is made, but i have seen originals, where its missing since top motor mounts often break and are replaced.


To make things clear I'm asking wether this is an ORIGINAL frame. The frame dimensions look right to me aswell.
The papers (german title if you will) date it to 1958

[Norrimichlson]

The frame is for real according to Palmer... My numbers are right side up and on the left. I don't have the book open so I can't say if your frame is early or later with any certainty, just that it's the real deal!.. Good luck!

okay so on your frame the casting numbers, and i mean this long sequence 47645-58, are on the left side and on the right? Sadly I don't have access to harley literature, could you provide a link or look it up for me? Please oneuptom you could really save my projekt. Any thoughts on the missing ''nob'' i pointed out.

By the way the picture of the frame without paint is a reverence, its not actually the frame, only the pictures of the black painted one are what I am buying.

Thank you!


EDIT: I mean the second picture. This is the reverence of how it should be regarding ''the nob''!

[oneuptom]

I'll look in the book and tell you exactly, back in a minute

[Norrimichlson]

I'll look in the book and tell you exactly, back in a minute

your the best man, honestly...

[oneuptom]

okay so on your frame the casting numbers, and i mean this long sequence 47645-58, are on the left side and on the right? Sadly I don't have access to harley literature, could you provide a link or look it up for me? Please oneuptom you could really save my projekt. Any thoughts on the missing ''nob'' i pointed out.

By the way the picture of the frame without paint is a reverence, its not actually the frame, only the pictures of the black painted one are what I am buying.

Thank you!


EDIT: I mean the second picture. This is the reverence of how it should be regarding ''the nob''!

Your frame is post late 1962. Some question as to when the number flip happened late 62 or beginning 63

edit; those hacked off bits are available from the aftermarket to restore your frame

[Norrimichlson]

Your frame is post late 1962. Some question as to when the number flip happened late 62 or beginning 63

edit; those hacked off bits are available from the aftermarket to restore your frame

ok so as far as the castings on the rear go its genuine, does palmer say anything on this damn missing nob on the neck, or do you think they maybe just changed it out?

[JBinNC]

I believe the missing boss behind the neck on your frame is because the speedo/dash mount is an aftermarket piece that has been added. Looks like the rear tank mount tabs have been added as well. All because the original stuff was cut off the frame at some point. (The boss in question is for the steering damper dowel pin, not that you asked.)

Jim

[oneuptom]

ok so as far as the castings on the rear go its genuine, does palmer say anything on this damn missing nob on the neck, or do you think they maybe just changed it out?

Your frame is absolutely genuine!.. Best to compare pics of your frame and one completely original (uncut) to determine exactly what was trimmed off.

[JBinNC]

My '60 frame has the numbers right side up on the inside of the right shock mount weldment. I don't think that makes much difference; depends on how the pattern or die was made, and there surely was more than one.

Jim

[Norrimichlson]

interesting thought, I looked it up online and as far as I can see there are replacement kits for the speedo mount. And you are right part of the speedo mount and tank mounts have been welded on poorly, whoever replaced the whole speedo mount before that must have been better skilled than the other dude because you can't see much

[Norrimichlson]

My '60 frame has the numbers right side up on the inside of the right shock mount weldment. I don't think that makes much difference; depends on how the pattern or die was made, and there surely was more than one.

Jim

yeah right the only thing that confuses me is that on the one i want to buy casting number (47645-58) right side shock mount outside not inside. As right as it can be so to speak

[oneuptom]

My '60 frame has the numbers right side up on the inside of the right shock mount weldment. I don't think that makes much difference; depends on how the pattern or die was made, and there surely was more than one.

Jim

I think that's expected (number inside on the right) if the exact same forging was used on both sides?

[Norrimichlson]

I think that's expected (number inside on the right) if the exact same forging was used on both sides?

ok so in summary: casting numbers on the outside (right side) of the right shock absorber mount is genuine. Also the missing boss, or the steering damper dowel pin as we just learned, could just be missing because it was replaced.

[Norrimichlson]

I think that's expected (number inside on the right) if the exact same forging was used on both sides?

ok just noticed something that could intrest you uppon closer inspection of one of the pics you can see letter code 3K stamped in you got to zoom hard but here we go


EDIT: once you spot it you can't unsee it so that solves it all

[oneuptom]

It's either late 62, 63 or 64... that's it!.. 1963??

Edit: there is a two digit die number on the right of the steering head also... 35 = 1962

35 or 36 = 1963... 37 or 38 =1964

[JBinNC]

It won't be a '62. '63 or early '64.

Jim

[Norrimichlson]

gues when the changed the top part of the steering head this digid is gone