1982 Shovelhead Build

What’s up guys I just wanted to make a thread about my build and get some help from some gurus as this is my first build.

Starting platform 1982 FLT with some interesting upgrades. Bike came with an S&S bottom end, shorty E carb, S&S heads not sure what package the bike has but I’ll figure that out later. Previous owner got it started for me and that’s all I needed. Attachment 108276
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This thing came all jacked up, I didn’t care because my plan was to strip it down and throw it in a 76’ flh frame and hard tail it.
Attachment 108278

Taking the motor out
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Chopping frame, I went with the Road 6 Customs hardtail kit I liked how the rear flowed.
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Picked up this rotary top trans for a decent deal in todays market. I would prefer a ratchet top but the prices are crazy for them at the moment. I’ll grab one later on I just want to get this thing mostly together for now. Attachment 108281Attachment 108281

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Not sure why my pictures are being posted turned, but my question is this port for the regulator has what kinda looks like a gasket? Or rtv? I tried searching for a new one can anyone let me know if a gasket is made for this or do I have to make my own?Attachment 108284

It's just RTV. There is no gasket, the rubber plug is the seal. The terminals look pretty bad, so a new stator might be a good idea while you have the motor out.

Jim

Can someone give me their input on installing this open primary kit? Got the belt and sprockets from marketplace and I’m trying to install it on my clutch basket that came with my 5 speed. My clutch basket should work? I know I need to add the 4 speed clutch. But what order is this stuff going in? Also I forgot how the the pin on the tranny shaft was supposed to seat is the way I have it on correct or is it supposed to be flipped? Attachment 108291

Here’s what I have from the disassembly that I’m trying to use to piece together on tranny.
Attachment 108292

The Woodruff key for your transmission mainshaft is installed with the flat side up, as in your picture. Tap it in gently so the top edge is parallel with the taper of the shaft.

Part #1, the clutch hub is installed first. If you are using the factory clutch hub bearing, it's best to install it on the clutch hub on the bench before installing the clutch hub on the transmission. Secure with part #4, the clutch hub nut. There is a lock plate that goes under the nut. The nut has a seal pressed in to seal around the clutch pushrod. You might want to renew it. The nut is a left hand thread and should be torqued to 90 - 120 ft.lb. (MY spec; not in any manual). DO NOT use a rattle gun on to tighten this nut.

Part #2 appears to be an extra inner primary bearing, and you already have one in your mainshaft support.

Once the clutch hub is installed and secured, install the motor pulley with enough shim behind it that the toothed edge of the pulley is not touching the alternator rotor. You should be able to get at least a
.003 feeler gauge between the edge of the pulley and the alternator rotor. Snug up the nut, just 20 or 30 ft.lb. while you are setting this up. Then put the clutch shell on the hub and check your belt alignment with a straightedge. You will need to have the transmission square on its plate and snugged down while you are doing this. You can add spacers behind the motor pulley if necessary, but you cannot move it inboard from the original position I described. If it needs to move inboard to align the belt, you will have to change something else. Maybe move the transmission out a little. Once you have the belt alignment set, remove the motor pulley and offer up the motor pulley, belt, and clutch shell as an assembly. Tighten the motor pulley nut (may be part of the #3 group, I really can't tell) to 150 - 165 ft.lb. and use a little red Loctite on the thread. Then put the clutch in and adjust everything and you are done.

Then you will have to see if the belt tracks properly when the motor is running, but that is for another day.

Jim

I had a feeling the clutch hub was supposed to go on first but it seems as if it has to be pressed on the shaft, I just wanted to make sure before I put it on that I wouldn’t have to take it apart again until I dissemble to get the frame painted

Been a while since I’ve updated this thing, got carried away with my drift build finally got enough parts to gather this thing up. Attachment 108601 was able to make my first exhaust, would’ve preferred some upsweeps but I was limited to what ever I had laying around.

Attachment 108602 knew I wanted some Frisco style mid controls but I couldn’t justify Frisco prices so I got these made for me for a good price and got the jockey shifter mocked up, next is figuring out how to get it all to engage properly ��

Attachment 108642 got my rear caliper mounted up, excited to feel these things in action.

Attachment 108643 finally got everything put together and was able to start the bike a couple of times but I know for a fact my timing is off. I’ve searched countless of videos and posts about setting the points ignition. I’m stumped, I’ve gapped my points at 0.018 and even 0.020 on the skiing larger lobe, set the front cylinder rear pushrod to bottom out and centered my advanced TDC vertical line where my issue is that when I go to use my test light to adjust them to where it just wants to light up it won’t light up.. it will do it sometimes (I’ve tried timing this thing over 10 times already) I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. It’s really making me want to just shell out on rawhyde electronic ignition but I don’t want to give up. Here’s what I have 5.0 ohm dyna coil, checked that I’m getting spark, reset my super e carb to factory specs, brand new points ignition, fully charged battery, yes there’s fuel in tank and carb is getting it. What am I missing? Really want to get it running mint so I can send my tins off to paint

On an '82, the advance timing mark is a dot. The line is the TDC mark. (If the flywheels are original.)

Jim

Also, you gotta twist the point cam against the advance weight springs to its stop to set the advance timing.

Jim

There’s only one good clear video on YouTube on how to time the motor and he has an 83’ and he was able to time it with the vertical line? Is it still different he had an fxsb and mine was an flt?

He's timing the retarded or starting timing. You can do that to get it started, but follow up by adjusting the advance timing with a strobe timing light. That's all in the manual. (You will need a manual for a '78 or earlier cone motor to get the factory instructions for a point and coil ignition.) You do have a factory service manual, don't you?

If you want to do the retarded timing setting as a first step, best to position the line at the rear of the timing hole.

Good luck with it,
Jim

I’m stumped, tried setting the points like 20 times still can’t get the bike to fire after like 20 kicks.. now my breather from my oil pump is leaking oil out of it?

If you are interested, I can walk you through all the steps to handle the ignition on this thing, but it's a lot of typing (on a little phone screen in my case). So, you need to be willing to do it, and that means ALL the steps. If you are interested, I'll have some time this evening to devote to it.

Jim

I can't look at sideways pics. Looking good tho...
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Jim has a write up for timing cone shovels and iron heads if you haven't seen it, it is here:

https://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55778
Hope this helps and maybe saves Jim some typing on his phone.

I used these instructions when I converted my early evo to a points ignition so the kick start would work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drivermark

Jim has a write up for timing cone shovels and iron heads if you haven't seen it, it is here:

https://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55778
Hope this helps and maybe saves Jim some typing on his phone.

I used these instructions when I converted my early evo to a points ignition so the kick start would work.

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Thanks for the link. Yeah, that should save me some typing.

Jim

Thanks man, I don’t know if it’s because I’m uploading through my phone but it wants to switch the pics to sideways and it’s annoying

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drivermark

Jim has a write up for timing cone shovels and iron heads if you haven't seen it, it is here:

https://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55778
Hope this helps and maybe saves Jim some typing on his phone.

I used these instructions when I converted my early evo to a points ignition so the kick start would work.

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I will look into this after work, on the flip side I already have rawhides new electronic ignition on the way should be here in a day or two Just in case these points give me no luck. @JBinNC I appreciate you replying

So Where I’m kind of lost is after I have everything lined up for TDC and I move back to the points, am I turning the points plate counterclockwise all the way and THEN trying to turn the cam lobe counter clockwise aswell?? This is how I have been trying to time the motor. Points on skinny love set to 0.018, take pushrod cover out crank motor to where pushrod goes up and then comes back down. I would then go to the timing whole and crank until I saw vertical line in the window or dot because I tried both ways. Then I think my issue is at the points.. I would counter clockwise the plate and try to see that my test light would turn on when I rotated the plate clockwise but I never got the lives to open the points and would be left with no lights so I think my issue would be that I’m not physically turning the cam lobe to see the test light turn on? It’s just weird only a few posts mention that and everyone else is able to just have the plate turned counter clockwise and then they just turn them clockwise to get their test light to light up and they’re done. Not sure that it makes a difference but when I do get the points plate to turn my test light on the points spark a bit (I think that’s supposed to happen?) just no one ever said that in any posts or videos.

I’m starting to think something had to be messed with when this motor was put together being that it’s not bone stock. Anyways I have a new 5.0 ignition coil and rawhides electronic ignition on the way in a couple days so after that the bike will have completely new electronics.

Since you are setting the advance timing, you must turn the point cam to its limit, to replicate the advance weights turning it as the motor revs up.

If your points are sparking noticeably when they open, you may have a bad condenser. And a bad condenser will make starting extremely difficult. If you even suspect it, replace it. It's hard to find good condensers these days. I've had the best luck with the Blue Streak condensers.

Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBinNC

Since you are setting the advance timing, you must turn the point cam to its limit, to replicate the advance weights turning it as the motor revs up.

If your points are sparking noticeably when they open, you may have a bad condenser. And a bad condenser will make starting extremely difficult. If you even suspect it, replace it. It's hard to find good condensers these days. I've had the best luck with the Blue Streak condensers.

Jim

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The condenser is new, but it’s not the first time I’ve heard of people having bad ones from new. Apparently the convenience of points is to be able to buy parts anywhere so would you happen to know where I can get a new one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kcanela

The condenser is new, but it’s not the first time I’ve heard of people having bad ones from new. Apparently the convenience of points is to be able to buy parts anywhere so would you happen to know where I can get a new one?

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NAPA, Advance, Auto Zone, O'Reilly, whatever auto parts retailer that might still exist in your area. Cone H-D points & condenser are the same as early '70s six cylinder Chevy.

Jim

"Apparently the convenience of points is to be able to buy parts anywhere"

That and the stock electronic ignitions are programmed to have 3 dead revolutions before they fire the spark plugs which makes the kicker useless, that is the reason I changed mine to points.
There are programmable ei's that you can use but points ignitions are dirt cheap compared to them and they (points) worked for decades on multiple platforms so that's what I went with.
They are not set it and forget it like the electronics but the maintenance is really minimal.

just my 2cents

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBinNC

NAPA, Advance, Auto Zone, O'Reilly, whatever auto parts retailer that might still exist in your area. Cone H-D points & condenser are the same as early '70s six cylinder Chevy.

Jim

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Sweet, I’ll test it out later and see what happens

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drivermark

"Apparently the convenience of points is to be able to buy parts anywhere"

That and the stock electronic ignitions are programmed to have 3 dead revolutions before they fire the spark plugs which makes the kicker useless, that is the reason I changed mine to points.
There are programmable ei's that you can use but points ignitions are dirt cheap compared to them and they (points) worked for decades on multiple platforms so that's what I went with.
They are not set it and forget it like the electronics but the maintenance is really minimal.

just my 2cents

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My go-to ignition for kicker bikes is the Dyna S. It uses the stock mechanical advance unit, and the stock 5 ohm coil that points use. Best of all, it will fire the plugs right down to zero rpm, and even points won't do that. Plus, you don't have to mess with the hit-or-miss modern condensers. All you have to do is service the advance unit annually.

Jim

Thanks Jim, I'll keep that in mind for future reference.
I did find this on condensers while surfing the net a while back it might be helpful for some
http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/
The article seems more car oriented but there is some useful info.

I would have gone dyna s but I came across a couple dudes that have installed the new rawhides electronic ignition and rawhide states “the Dyna S ignition has some inherent flaws. One main oversight is that
their rotor is too light (less than the stock
rotor). This means it does not advance
properly. Also that rotor is made of plastic
and wears out in the middle into a big oval
shape. Another flaw is that it is drawing
much more current than needed. This is why
their pickups burn out. Also, I can not
determine where Dyna's components are
made.” so I figured I’d give something new a try.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kcanela

I would have gone dyna s but I came across a couple dudes that have installed the new rawhides electronic ignition and rawhide states “the Dyna S ignition has some inherent flaws. One main oversight is that
their rotor is too light (less than the stock
rotor). This means it does not advance
properly. Also that rotor is made of plastic
and wears out in the middle into a big oval
shape. Another flaw is that it is drawing
much more current than needed. This is why
their pickups burn out. Also, I can not
determine where Dyna's components are
made.” so I figured I’d give something new a try.

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Some truth here, mostly bullshit.

Rotor too light? The advance weights do the advancing, not the rotor.

Plastic rotor wears out? That one is a maybe, and so far I have personally seen no evidence of this.

Draws too much current? Preposterous. Enough said.

You may come to find you would be better off with a Dyna S, but only time will tell.

Jim

The Dyna S just works. I'm with JB on this one, they are a solid ignition. I have been running them for going on 30 years and have never seen a rotor wear out.

If they are drawing too much current then you are running the wrong coil(s).

Ok so I got my parts a day early… bad news still nothing.. even with the electronic ignition nothing wants to trigger my test light. I found out I wired my 3 position key switch wrong aswell so I rearranged the wires for the right key positions and still nothing which is unfortunate I was hoping that would’ve been my issue all along. So when testing with test light is the key position supposed to be on accessory or ignition position? I’ve tried both ways seems I can’t get anything I’m starting to think something is off with the flywheel.. can I just time it off the height of the actual front cylinder and not worry about dots or vertical timing marks since my year can be the either or for TDC or advanced TDC?? At this point I’m ready to just send this thing off to a shop.. it’s practically all done just need this damn timing set up..

So after a 3rd ignition it finally worked as everyone described turns out my key switch was wired wrong and ended up frying my first electronic system and most likely the points system picked up a used dyna s, timed it and fired right up she’s a first kicker!Attachment 108702

Time for paint!

All right! Perseverance leads to success!

Happy for you. And thanks for the feedback.

Jim

Looking good!

Attachment 108732

First time doing any striping and flames on top of that, few hours of work and got something decent to cruise around in.

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First version done for now, now I can touch up things as I go and get some cooler parts as they pop up but I’m content!
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Attachment 109210

New exhaust originally for a soft tail that I had to fab to fit the shovel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kcanela

Ok so I got my parts a day early… bad news still nothing.. even with the electronic ignition nothing wants to trigger my test light. I found out I wired my 3 position key switch wrong aswell so I rearranged the wires for the right key positions and still nothing which is unfortunate I was hoping that would’ve been my issue all along. So when testing with test light is the key position supposed to be on accessory or ignition position? I’ve tried both ways seems I can’t get anything I’m starting to think something is off with the flywheel.. can I just time it off the height of the actual front cylinder and not worry about dots or vertical timing marks since my year can be the either or for TDC or advanced TDC?? At this point I’m ready to just send this thing off to a shop.. it’s practically all done just need this damn timing set up..

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Any insight on the wiring for the key ignition? Trying to prevent the same thing from happening. It has 3 wires to it.