Lost the clutch on the '37 80" flathead

[CDeeZ]

Matt was right. TOB bit the dust. To my surprise, it's the later and weaker unit, not the witch hat setup.... I have ordered the witchhat conversion kit and waiting on it to arrive.

[Dragstews]

Going to need a new finger that's made for the witch-hat bearing ..

Don't think it will come along with the kit ??

[rockman96]

You will at the very least remove the trans top and douch out the case REALLY good, won't you? I'd pour a gallon of denatured alcohol, or something like that through it. There are a lot of particles inside the gear case that don't need to be there.

[CDeeZ]

Well, I wasn't planning on it. But I'm sure you're right. There's bound to be some junk in there from the TOB shitting the bed.

Honestly though, I'm tempted to just reassemble the thing with the new bearing and do a drain and fill several times to try to flush it out that way.

I'm not familiar with these 4 speeds as of yet. But compared to some other automotive trannys that I have worked on/rebuilt these ratchet top 4 speeds seem very simple, very forgiving and quite tough. I feel confident I could just reassemble this one with the new TOB and be OK. But you do make a point.... Guess I'll have to think about it.

I wonder if it's possible to remove the top with it still in the frame??? But it's what, 5 bolts holding it in the frame?

[Dragstews]

Less than 15 bucks ....

https://www.tjsmotorcycleparts.com/product/harley-knuckleheadpanheadshovelhead-4-speed-tranny-magnetic-drain-plug/

[CDeeZ]

Going to need a new finger that's made for the witch-hat bearing ..

Don't think it will come along with the kit ??

It looks the same as the one you posted in the other thread I have pertaining to 4 speed stuff for my Panhead. It looks like the earlier style 17-1509 clutch finger. I ordered a new clutch finger just in case, but I believe the clutch finger pictured that was installed in the kicker is the earlier style for the witch-hat. Is it possible someone was mixing the early clutch finger with the later dime style TOB???? I'll get some pics up later.

Less than 15 bucks ....

https://www.tjsmotorcycleparts.com/p...ic-drain-plug/

A magnetic drain plug! Of course! Every other drain plug I've touched has been magnetic. Why shouldn't this one be?


Of the 3 different kits you mentioned to convert to witch-hat bearing, there were 3 P/N's. I have all three of theme here to compare them and figure out which one I need. From what I can tell, they are all identical with the only difference being pushrod length. Does this sound right to you?

[Dragstews]

36 though 64 11 3/4" ..
65 though 69 12" ..
70 up to 84 12 1/2"..

And not to mention the belt drive shaft that's longer than the 70 up shaft ..

[CDeeZ]

The clutch pushrod I pulled out measures very close to 14" It appears to be slightly under that. You can see the original pushrod on top, and the new one from the VT kit below:


Of the three VT kits for converting back to a witchhat, this one has a pushrod length that matches the one I pulled out. Supposedly '70 - '84:



It also appears as though whoever was in this trans before me, used the early style clutch finger with the dime TOB. Even though that clutch finger is meant for the witch hat??








So according to the year of TOB kit which fits here, doesn't that mean this is in fact a Shovelhead trans??? And if so, Why doesn't it have the ears for the primary cover to bolt to? Doesn't look like anybody cut them off?

[JBinNC]

IF you have a motor with the tapered shaft for the motor sprocket, and IF your primary drive lines up, then SURELY you have an early (kicker) transmission mainshaft. And consequently, you need the shortest ('3? - '64) clutch pushrod to go with the early, big release bearing.

I think you are making it more complicated than you need to make it (but order, once, correctly, is a whole lot less hassle than returning parts so I understand your caution).

Jim

[CDeeZ]

Jim, I really don't know what exactly I got here to be honest. Just making my best educated guess as an avid gearhead, but one who is at this point, still learning about the 4 speed ratchet tops. The motor and trans are both tapered shafts.

All I know is the clutch pushrod that came out of the trans, and was in there for the last 20+ years before the TOB broke and I had to remove it, well that pushrod is 14". Give or take.

Which, is why I ordered all three kits, because I didn't know what I had. I'm going to return the other two kits now that I've narrowed it down. Returning the other two kits will be cake with JP. I didn't have to open them or anything in order to measure and compare pushrod length. You can easily see them given the shrink wrapping they come packaged in.

Not sure how I'm making it more complicated than needed? Like I said, the clutch pushrod that was in there for over two decades was 14". So that's the kit I'm using to convert to a witchhat bearing. The kit which came packaged with the same length pushrod.

Time permitting, I'll have it all buttoned up again to see fairly soon.

[CDeeZ]

Jim,

It just dawned on me. You're saying that given the trans I have, I should use the shortest clutch pushrod with the witchhat bearing.

I was thinking I needed to pick the clutch pushrod that matched what I pulled out of there. But the clutch pushrod I pulled out, would of course be longer because it used to have a dime TOB in there. With the old witchhat TOB, the clutch pushrod will be shorter. Because, the witchhat bearing is quite a bit larger.

Is that right?

[JBinNC]

Jim,

It just dawned on me. You're saying that given the trans I have, I should use the shortest clutch pushrod with the witchhat bearing.

I was thinking I needed to pick the clutch pushrod that matched what I pulled out of there. But the clutch pushrod I pulled out, would of course be longer because it used to have a dime TOB in there. With the old witchhat TOB, the clutch pushrod will be shorter. Because, the witchhat bearing is quite a bit larger.

Is that right?

Bingo.

Jim

[CDeeZ]

I can't seem to get the clutch adjusted with the new witch hat bearing. There just isn't enough throw on the release arm before it hits the ratchet top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4TRoFHJQw

Anyone know what the problem is?

[JBinNC]

You may have to grind inside the kick cover to get enough clearance for the bearing. If you can move the bearing deeper into the cover, you will gain travel. That is common with aftermarket kick covers.

Jim

[CDeeZ]

Hmmm... I'll look into gridding some off. Would that still be the case even though I can flip the release arm outside the bike and get plenty of throw that way?

Is it possible that I need the intermediate length clutch pushrod. The longest pushrod is too long to even bolt the kicker cover on. The shortest pushrod is what's installed in the video. Maybe I should try to middle length pushrod?