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  1. #1

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    Default Can you ID this tranny

    Can you ID this transmission?

    I'm a little confused. This is a build that I came up on, with very little history. The engine is a 74 Shovel. I was told this build never had the electric start installed and was started by kick only

    The tranny is not a cowpie, but looks to me, like a ratchet top: But if it is, why is there an e start ring gear in the clutch basket? I would beleive if this is a ratchet top tranny, it would have a short mainshaft in the tranny, but as you can see, the bike has a e start type inner/outer primary, and as we can see, there is no e start, and the primary holes have been blocked of where the selenoid was.

    OR maybe the clutch basket with the starter gear on it will work with a short shaft trans?

    So I am looking at a ratchet top (?) being run with a later aluminum inner/outer primary: If thats the case, how is the ratchet top being used in this case with a short tranny mainshaft?

    I have heard that it is possible to replace the shorter mainshaft in earler trannies with the later, e start longer mainshaf: Could this be the case?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tranny.jpg   TRanny 2.jpg  

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    It's a ratchet top trans....... You don't have to have a starter to run that clutch basket............

    The trans doesn't know or care what basket is on it........ You can put a Pan basket on it if you like............ But that basket is just fine............

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    Oh by the way the trans shaft has NOTHING to do with it being electric start or not........... It has to do with the motor alignment..........

  4. #4

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    Let me clarify then: I get you dont need a e start to run the basket pictured, The e start is not part of the problem

    What I dont get: If the clutch basket we see is a electric start basket (seen by the stater gear ring), then that basket can be run with a short (pre electric start) transmission? I guess thats what I am asking

    But I still dont get it. We see a aluminum inner primary, so I assume this rachet top has to have a long mainshaft? (Ratchet tops have short mainshafts)

    Am I missing something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    It's a ratchet top trans....... You don't have to have a starter to run that clutch basket............

    The trans doesn't know or care what basket is on it........ You can put a Pan basket on it if you like............ But that basket is just fine............
    ^yes^

    It's just an alternator, electric start, transmission and primary, all stock with the electric starter removed. The primary chain shoe is the early '70s style.
    The transmission will have the long mainshaft, which is there so the primary drive can be moved outboard to clear the alternator.
    That set-up could be '70 - early '79.

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by docmel View Post
    so I assume this rachet top has to have a long mainshaft? (Ratchet tops have short mainshafts)
    Those trans came with 3 different length shafts through the years........ That was basically the only difference in them......... Well other than the ears were added to mount the inner primary........

    And yes that trans has a long shaft......... Or it should............

    Now with that said that basket won't work with a tin primary............

  7. #7

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    JB

    So lets say I take this set up that you see, and remove the inner and outer primary, and want to run a open belt drive with a bearing support, with no e start: Can I use this same basket with a pre '65 belt drive system, or must I use a later 66 later open belt drive set up? ..................

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    Quote Originally Posted by docmel View Post
    So lets say I take this set up that you see, and remove the inner and outer primary, and want to run a open belt drive with a bearing support, with no e start: Can I use this same basket with a pre '65 belt drive system, or must I use a later 66 later open belt drive set up? ..................

    If the splines are the same you should be ok............ But I'd bet they would be different..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by docmel View Post
    JB

    So lets say I take this set up that you see, and remove the inner and outer primary, and want to run a open belt drive with a bearing support, with no e start: Can I use this same basket with a pre '65 belt drive system, or must I use a later 66 later open belt drive set up? ..................
    If you are changing it to a belt drive, you will be replacing the clutch shell (basket) to the one in the belt drive kit. You could use a pre-'66 open belt drive as long as it has the splined motor pulley (the '36 - '54 motor shaft was taper and key, not splined). The belt drive kits for the aluminum primary bikes usually include a slightly longer belt for use inside the aluminum primary, and of course can be used without the primary, as an open drive.

    Jim

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    ^^^^^^ Well there you go.......... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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    I'm not sure why it was so confusing what that trans was... if it's a 74 that all looks like stock equipment. I would say that it absolutely has a long shaft in the trans, otherwise the clutch basket would be rubbing on the inner primary.

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    There are 4 possible mainshaft lengths. you could see any one of these in a ratchet top or a cowpie trans.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Glide View Post
    There are 4 possible mainshaft lengths. you could see any one of these in a ratchet top or a cowpie trans.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture ap-ms.jpg 
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ID:	107609

    ....
    Really there are only 3 for a ratchet top.........

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    4 speed Harley Transmission ID?

    "look just below the ratchet lid gasket on the top right front side of the case. you should see a letter and number code.
    a 71 should have a letter G or H with four numbers after it.
    the letter on that code tells the year...

    Starting in 1962 the letter is A, in 63 it could be an A or B, 64-B, C or D, 65-C or D, 66-D, E, F or G, 67-D or E, 68-E, 69-E or F, 70-F or G, 71-G or H, 72-H, J or K, 73-K or L, 74-L, M or N, 75-N, P or R, 76-R, T, U or V, 77-V, W or X, 78-Y or Z, 79 and later transmission cases will have double letters."

    https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=191961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    Really there are only 3 for a ratchet top.........
    Absolutely correct if you are talking what came from the factory -

    But most of the transmissions out there have been into more than once by who knows who.

    It could be any one of the four lengths by the time it gets to the next guy - and if that next guy is you this is good info to have...

    If a ratchet top trans comes through the door for rebuild I won't assume which shaft it has. I'll verify because there are 4 possibilities..

    ..
    Last edited by 69Glide; 12-10-2020 at 9:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Glide View Post
    If a ratchet top trans comes through the door for rebuild I won't assume which shaft it has. I'll verify because there are 4 possibilities..

    ..
    Yep you are correct and that's great info for sure........

    But we are talking about his trans and it has the inner primary attached to a motor so you can tell what shaft it has........ Not like looking at a trans in a box...........

    Merry Christmas............

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    Yep you are correct and that's great info for sure........

    But we are talking about his trans and it has the inner primary attached to a motor so you can tell what shaft it has........ Not like looking at a trans in a box...........

    Merry Christmas............

    Just providing info for anyone interested..

    If the info has value then folks are welcome to it. It may help them answer their questions re HD 4 speed transmission ID.

    If it's not valuable then ignore and move on..

    69

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Glide View Post
    Just providing info for anyone interested..

    If the info has value then folks are welcome to it. It may help them answer their questions re HD 4 speed transmission ID.

    If it's not valuable then ignore and move on..

    69
    Thanks 69 Glide: Keep posting that kinda info: Someone I am very sure can and will use it THATS WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR

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    Quote Originally Posted by docmel View Post
    Thanks 69 Glide: Keep posting that kinda info: Someone I am very sure can and will use it THATS WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR
    That's cool with me it's your thread...... I was just trying to keep the thread on your question....

    Since where on trans in general........ What shafts came in a 93 5 speed softtail and what are they interchangeable with and what years?????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    That's cool with me it's your thread...... I was just trying to keep the thread on your question....

    Since where on trans in general........ What shafts came in a 93 5 speed softtail and what are they interchangeable with and what years?????????
    As near as I can remember, '91 - '05, '06? the mainshaft is the same. '90 is the odd year, and then '89 back to '80 I think are the same.

    And in case you are being facetious, I did no research for this answer, it's off the top of my head. Caveat emptor.

    Jim

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