Removing bearing races in neck

[DisplacedTexan1968]

Hello all.

I am new to the forum. Really wish that I had found this place earlier!

Background:
I am in the process of rebuilding a bobbed/chopped 1972 T120R on a rigid frame. I have everything torn down, except for one final step that has me stumped...removing the bearing racers from the neck. The bike had a sportster front end on it. I am planning to go to a springer after paint. The paint guy is waiting on my to get this to him, so the delays are mounting due to this racer situation...

I have tried everything I can think of to get these racers out, with my last attempt being a long punch and hammering opposite sides, but absolutely no budging. My thinking as to a possible solution is to heat the neck with a propane torch, let it cool, and hope that it will help the racers to break loose.

Does anyone else have experience with this and/or perhaps advice on how else to approach this?

Thank you for any insight and/or advice.

[TriNortchopz]

the long punch through the frame neck onto the spigot of the bearing cup should do it.
Check for any locking pins through the side of the neck into the bearing cup. If none, heat may help.

EDIT: yup, zoomed in on pic; that bottom bearing cup with the built-in fork stop, as Jim stated, "should be pinned".

[JBinNC]

The bottom one with the fork stop SHOULD be pinned in some way, so check that out first. The top cup should drift out with a 2 lb. hammer fairly easily. You may need a bigger hammer (as much as I hate to give that advice to novices).

Jim

[DisplacedTexan1968]

Thank you all for the great advice.

So, after some cleanup and closer investigation, the bottom race does indeed have a place for a pin (see attached pic).
Looking closely at it, I cannot see a pin in there. Assuming it is in there and I just cannot see it, is this a case where I simply push the pin all the way through?

Thanks again.

[DoomBuggy]

That pin just keeps the cup from turning in the neck. The advise earlier to use a bigger hammer is pretty much dead on, you can spray a little penetrating oil in there first, be sure to invert the frame part way through the soak so it gets both cups. It might be me, but I have had better luck driving the top cup out then the bottom one.

USE CARE, look in there are see the lip you want your punch to rest on. This ain't a race, slow and steady does it.

[DisplacedTexan1968]

One odd factor is that the cup is not centered, so it leads me to question whether or not the pin is in there at all....

Thank you all for the responses.

[JBinNC]

If the cup tang is not centered, the pin may be sheared. It doesn't really matter, you should be able to drift both cups out.

As an aside, I think it's ridiculous for these designers of these head cups with the fork stop to expect a small dowel pin to withstand the forces that the fork stop is subjected to. It might pass on a show bike, but in real-world use that little dowel pin is woefully inadequate.

Jim

[shank1kole]

Air hammer with steel and brass washers. the ease will amaze you. something about the hits per minute ha ha. Be well.

[farmall]

I tack weld some scrap to bridge the races (note spelling) then beat the scrap with some round bar and a hand sledge. It's a very common very effective method. If the races are undamaged their is no need to remove them.

The cups which contain the races may be left installed unless you've reason to remove them. It's easy to mask them for painting and not having to draw them them in after painting means not risking chipped paint. (A piece of allthread close to steering stem diameter, two nuts and two large flat washers work nicely for bearing cup installations. That can be left in place for painting and if sufficiently long makes a nice place to hang the frame from. I use that method to seal necks and wheel hubs (a bead of RTV seals both so well I do that for sand blasting and powder coat without having to degrease hubs or necks).

As an aside, I think it's ridiculous for these designers of these head cups with the fork stop to expect a small dowel pin to withstand the forces that the fork stop is subjected to. It might pass on a show bike, but in real-world use that little dowel pin is woefully inadequate.

Agreed. That design is heinous.

Unless you have more reason than paint to take it apart I'd have the painter mask it instead.

[TriNortchopz]

...It might be me, but I have had better luck driving the top cup out, then the bottom one.

With the top one out using the long drift (punch) and heavy hammer, you could then measure the diameter of the spigot of the bearing cup, then find a piece of pipe (or a large socket on an extension) the right length and size to fit into the neck, and use that to remove the lower bearing cup; better than just a narrow drift.

[Guest]

if all you want out are the bearing outer races, as said by Farmall & weld a bar across it & then drift out,
or you want the cups out as well I would then do the same & weld a bar across or better a 1/4' thick plate welded around & then drift it out,
new cups are cheap and so are the bearings, as yours isnt in correctly anyway, i for one would just weld a round plate over the cup & knock the lot out together & buy all new cups & bearings & make sure the new ones are indexed & pinned in properly, THEN install new outer races.

[10scDust]

Some experiences I've had in the industrial setting:

Removing a bearing race from a pocket, weld a bead onto the race where the bearing itself runs, all the way around the track. When the weld cools, it shrinks and the race comes easy. I would try that before welding a bridge, just me. Just a steady hand and don't weld it in.

Another tip:
When drifting bearings in use a cold steel drift and not a brass one. The brass will leave flakes of brass that can ruin the bearing as debris gone un-noticed. The race material is harder than cold rolled steel, and so long as you are not beating the heck out of it during installation, it will be fine. A dull thud once it is finally seated.

I now limit my use of a brass bar/drift, just not with bearings.
I hope this helps. I at one time thought I was taking care, not damaging the bearing, knowing the brass was softer. But, I was taught differently by some old-world journeymen (some of them) on my apprenticeship in machine repair.

edit in: I removed neck races once, they did not need the welding trick, there was barely a lip to drift them by. They did come out, and once out, I took a dremel type tool with a carbide tip, and cut two spots 180 degrees out, for future bearing race removal. Futile, yes I guess, as they may likely never need replacing again, the old had moisture and corrosion setting in.

[DazedandConfused]

Just throwing something out for consideration...don't lose sight of what your time and aggravation are worth. New bearing cups can be had for less than $40, and some times it's worth $40 just to not have to deal with something. If I were looking to remove bearing races from the 86 and older style cups, I might give some serious consideration to just replacing them, depending on the specifics