Crazy World of the Crocker Pt 2

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  • klemdickens
    Junior Member
    • Jun 2021
    • 5

    Crazy World of the Crocker Pt 2

    Crazy World of the Crocker Motorcycle Pt 2

    Elmo Looper worked as a machinist in Los Angeles, for a time at the Crocker motorcycle company, and at the Rollins Mfg Co, just down the street from the Crocker plant. Elmo was a master machinist, and made racing camshafts for the Crocker big twins in the early 1940’s. Elmo owned three Crocker motorcycles, a racing version and a cruiser, of which photos exist. Via his association with the Crocker concern, Elmo acquired parts, tooling, and drawings for the manufacture of these motorcycles. Elmo Looper also produced at least two engines -- fitted to British motorcycle frames, in one case a BSA and the other Norton. Those British-framed machines were given to family members, one being called the “tootie” bike. When Elmo passed on, much of this stock – including factory drawings and tooling – were inherited by his brother, Murray Looper.

    In 1970, it’s known that Chuck Vernon purchased V-twin parts, tooling and patterns from Murray Looper in Henderson, being some of the stock formerly produced or owned by Elmo Looper. This stock included a few basket cases, engines, frames, unstamped engine cases, parts, and incomplete motorcycles. Murray Looper provided hand-written receipts for the engine cases and basket cases that had numbers. (Whether that stock included Scootabout or speedway parts is unknown.)

    Another Crocker man, Ernie Skelton, appeared on Elmo Looper’s doorstep in the late 1960’s. Skelton purchased a motorcycle and basket case V-twins from Elmo, or from his family. Skelton is reported to have “borrowed” the Crocker factory drawings from the Looper family, but did not return them. Then the Crocker factory drawings entered the wild, with copies made, some forged to give false dimensions so that (presumably) only the forger would know which drawings are correct and which are forged. This rather twisted act – which presumably only a criminal mind might conjure – was to ensure that others would fail in any attempt to produce correct pattern parts made from the forged drawings!

    The genuine engine numbers Murray Looper delivered to Chuck Vernon are not specifically and verifiably known, but engine numbers associated with Vernon are as follows: 1X, 5, 18, 39, 56, 62, 102, 112, 117, 252, 253, 255, 309 (Some of which are not original factory numbers; in the next part of this series we will address engine number stamps.) From 1970 or so, Skelton and Vernon worked together producing restorations, some from genuine frames and engines; others perhaps from tooling and molds, or from stamped blank cases, with specific circumstances not definitively known. (According to more than one source, some of the engine cases in Vernon-Skelton’s possession were not numbered.)

    Another mystery, Jack Gormley purchased three Crocker V-twin motorcycles from one “Art Smyth” in Nevada… Smyth has never been identified, and by all accounts never existed. Why or how “Art Smyth” appeared is unknown, but has a certain poetic ring; point being that the provenance therein was, and is, still unknown. Murray Looper lived in Henderson … could he have been the mysterious “Art Smyth”? Point being that a finite number of genuine or not Crocker motorcycles existed in other hands, from a few junkers and basket cases to complete motorcycles.

    Chuck Vernon became the ‘point man’ for Crocker in 1970 -- selling parts and basket cases -- and compiled owner’s names in the “official” Crocker registry that he maintained. So after 1970, Vernon assumed control of the Crocker registry, the definitive guide regarding the provenance and factory numbering.

    Now, that an individual or individuals may have fraudulently padded out the Crocker registry with intent may not be proved, for reasons we shall examine. After 1999, a cottage industry for V-twin reproduction was setup. A Cycle World article about the company is linked here: https://www.cycleworld.com/2012/10/2...ith-a-crocker/ and alleges that fifteen new machines were seen under construction but the Cycle World number is likely an exaggeration. Other fabricators of complete engines/frames are known to exist but will not be named here. V-twins and “Crocker conversions” originate far from 1346 Venice Blvd: some from Canada and Australia.* Likewise, Crocker engine molds have been marketed and sold on ebay:


    https://i.postimg.cc/RVXyr6Tk/crock-mold2.jpg


    Bottom line, the custodian of the registry may not have known that an example had been fabricated, and that # could have entered the registry when represented by the fabricator as being original.

    Now, what about Crocker V-twin numbers overall? According to Al Crocker, by the end of 1936, 12 V-twin engines had been produced (although 16 appeared on Vernon’s 2010 register!) for 1936. So quite remarkably (according to the 2010 registry) all motorcycles of the first year’s production still exist today! In 1993, Vernon claimed that 33 small tank version V-twins were produced; while 15 big tank models were built in 1939-40; with 5 V-twins produced in 1941, and a handful produced in 1942 from left-over parts. In total, Vernon claimed in 1993 that only about 57 V-twins had been produced. See the link here: Cycle World Magazine, January 1993



    By 2010 the Crocker registry listed 72 motorcycles as being in existence. Since then, other ‘barn finds’ have appeared, and one new ‘barn find’ was even featured on a TV show. Link: https://i.postimg.cc/Wz4YwgNh/fresno.jpg Now, if we can assume that the ambitious figure of 16 V-twin motorcycles produced per year could be maintained for 5 years -- which certainly did not happen -- that would provide us with an optimistic number of 80 V-twins ever produced. So, we are asked to accept that all ‘original’ Crocker V-twins (or thereabouts) are still with us today! That’s not only optimistic, but an impossibility.

    In 2009, the Crocker site 1346Venice wrote that, “Only 64 were ever made” while the official Crocker registry listed 72 known V-twin examples in 2010. The Wheels Through Time Museum, and Solvang Motorcycle Museum, claim that 100 V-twins were built. So how did the Crocker V-twin production expand from an overall number of 57 V-twins in 1993, to a total of 79 motorcycles in existence today, and 100 overall claimed? 22 'barn finds' in that period of time? And especially after the price of these motorcycles went ballistic. It's known that five more V-twins are in the process of being “restored” which will eventually provide us with a whopping total of 84 Crocker V-twins produced, all still with us today! So, more Crocker V-twins will be held in collector hands than were ever produced by the original Crocker company.

    It appears that someone, and likely others, discovered that producing a legit Crocker reproduction was not profitable. That’s because NHTSA safety and California exhaust standards make the production of new motorcycles prohibitive, where the 1999 Excelsior-Henderson experiment provides a stellar example. The cost of manufacturing, selling, and servicing a reproduction motorcycle - which sells for perhaps 1/3rd that of an ‘original’ - just does not make sense. But…by some means, if a reproduction motorcycle may somehow enter the register as 'original' and then sold for a huge sum (with no need to supply parts/service later) that’s a scenario that might make $ sense. And prima facie, the scenario that fits known facts.

    Now, there is no intent to maintain that all Crocker V-twin motorcycles in existence are false. No doubt genuine examples do exist. The point is, that for a sum total of 84 bikes to exist, greater than the entire company production - with not a single bike lost due to time! - is an absolute fantasy. Since restorers have easy access to Crocker drawings, molds, and reproduction parts, there is every cause to believe that something is amiss in Denmark. Point being, for a greater number of Crocker motorcycles to now exist than were ever manufactured during the 1930’s is an impossibility. Now, as a disclaimer, the author is not providing proof that any specific scam or fraud has been perpetrated with regard to a specific motorcycle.

    Even so, there are many questions to be addressed and clarified going forward. For example, why has no new Crocker motorcycle registry been produced since 2010? Let’s speculate. For one thing, the registrar is now deceased. For another, an updated registry must represent an element of fantasy, and legal liability too regarding whoever/whomsoever produces it, should an entry proven to be false. IE a big exposure, should a reproduction motorcycle sold as original then be proved fake, which will discredit not only the registry, but other similarly stamped machines.

    The reader may also ask about any regulating body, and why that body would consider the issue of falsified machines selling for many hundreds of thousands to be unimportant? Speculating that such an institution might be the Antique Motorcycle Club of America, or AMCA? So why would the AMCA ignore this issue? The author and related sources will not speculate on that particular matter at this time, due to the sensitive position of certain parties potentially concerned…
    To be continued. In the next installment, we will examine engine number stampings.

    *An AMCA forum thread appears here: https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...indian-crocker

    Montoya
    Last edited by klemdickens; 12-26-2021, 8:41 AM.
  • farmall
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2013
    • 9976

    #2
    Kinda useless in a chopper forum since Crockers ain't choppers, but I like it.

    There's enough rich people wanting toys someone needs to lighten their wallets. It happens in other ways too as the original owners are either dead or ancient and knowledge is lost. For example the "provenance" of a Vincent is the engine and they don't even have frames as such (Egli customs etc excepted but those came much later), so when the famous Gunga Din blew up it was no more until a pile of parts mysteriously became Gunga Din and sold for phat bank.

    Comment

    • tzienlee
      • Mar 2024

      #3
      hey, if ya wanna buy the crocker Elvis gave to Lincoln send ya bank details to me at...... 1-800-saw.ya.coming.com.........

      a fool & his money are easily parted, so no sympathy from me over anyone with more money than sense,...

      Comment

      • klemdickens
        Junior Member
        • Jun 2021
        • 5

        #4
        Click image for larger version

Name:	crock_register.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	23.3 KB
ID:	1321445 ... rest me case....

        Comment

        • klemdickens
          Junior Member
          • Jun 2021
          • 5

          #5
          NB: Crocker V-twins are frequently fabrications/customs, hence the relevance to this forum, thank you

          Comment

          • klemdickens
            Junior Member
            • Jun 2021
            • 5

            #6
            Part One: Crazy World of the Crocker

            (Part 2 appears in a separate post)
            [NB: Crocker V-twins frequently fabrications/customs, hence relevance to forum]

            Crazy World of the Crocker Pt 1

            American motorcycle culture is well known for its bizarre characters, whether stunt men, actors, gangs, or just iconoclasts… and then there are the Crocker folks. Among the costliest motorcycle marques, the Crocker always invokes drama, skullduggery, and intrigue.

            The ‘new Crocker’ effort began in 1998. Pete Banfield owned the Crocker trade name but his idea to promote a replica ran into trouble when partners Karalash and Michael Schacht claimed the trademark instead, insisting that Pete had no right to it. Pete says he owns the Crocker Motorcycle name, but only insomuch as he can legally defend it. Once Pete was forced out, the Crocker partnership consisted of Schacht, Karalash, and ‘Rotten Rich’. Subsequently Schacht was said to run off with the group’s entire assets, to establish a ‘new’ Crocker operation, an allegation Schacht denies. A legal battle ensued, Karalash vs Schacht, but the case was dropped.

            [Note: We refer to the owner of two Crocker basket cases only as 'Bill Jones' to protect the name of the perhaps innocent.]

            After Schacht assumed control of the new Crocker operation, “Bill Jones” provided two Crocker basket cases for restoration to Dave Hansen’s shop in Ventura. According to Jones, he fronted The Shop large amounts toward their restoration, and to Schacht. Hansen had other bikes from Jones too: an Indian 4 and a 1917 Excelsior kept in Hansen’s showroom window. Later, when Hansen hadn't done anything with the basket cases, Jones retrieved the bikes. Bill complained that the Indian 4 had been stripped of its magneto and other parts, and that Crocker parts were missing. Despite a considerable outlay, the only 'refund' Bill received from The Shop concerned two small checks which Bill did not cash.

            By the Hansen arrangement, Jones commissioned Schacht to produce two gearboxes, paying in advance. Schacht is well known in the Crocker world, re his attempt to revive the Crocker name in a 20+ year effort with little to publicly show for it. No bikes beyond a single older example (the ownership of which is disputed) or anything produced since 2012. That’s beside an abounding theory that fabrications have been produced by many different builders, which do make the rounds.

            Back to Jones. Once Jones retrieved the two Crocker baskets, he took them to Patrick James to restore. The deal was one-for-one. That is, when James completed restoration of Crocker #62, then James got to keep Crocker #5 as payment. From here the story just gets weirder. Since Jones threatened to visit Schacht personally -- to either serve a warrant or to demand his undelivered gearboxes -- Schacht offered to supply the boxes to Jones as originally agreed, so long as the particular restorer was not associated with Patrick James. Jones knew Brit bike restorer Steve, of Oakland Oregon, so went that route. Steve was restoring Brits - not Crocker - so Bill cooked up a scheme to allegedly ship the Crocker boxes to Steve’s shop as intermediary, since he had no relation to anyone in the wondrous world of Crocker. That scheme would supposedly convince Schacht to provide the delinquent parts owed to Jones.

            Sound complicated? Well, Schacht had never heard of this restorer before (in the rarified atmosphere of the Crocker) thus Schacht smelled a rat, and refused to ship the boxes. Steve called Schacht to discuss. Schacht said the only way to do this deal is to convince Jones to send the two Crocker’s down to his own shop. "Tell (Bill) you love him like a brother, man! And you know the only way those bikes will ever get restored properly is by Michael Schacht! Just give me the word and I’ll have an army of guys go up there and get those bikes!" Sure.

            At this time Schacht hooked up with Homma Kohei and Yoshi at a dealership called the Garage Co in LA. Prices for Crocker parts were high - $5k for a clutch basket? But what the heck, the last Crocker went for $704K at auction! Research with Yoshi concerns a conversation this author will not detail. Suffice to say that a clutch basket was unavailable, and that a genuinely honourable guy was apparently aware that something was not quite right in Crockerland.

            This author’s search for Crocker parts then led to a mysterious Mr. Chili in Australia, claiming to have the largest and best Crocker motorcycle collection in the world. The website exists as ‘1346Venice’ but the contact email is long defunct. The site is untended perhaps with malicious code. The phone works but a heavy Oz voice recording says, "Text me instead because if you leave a message I won't listen to it". ‘Mr Chilli’ is of course Brandon Chiles. Brandon Quote: "I have plenty of new clutch baskets I made but I’m keeping them all." Such is the Crazy World. There are other strange things about the Crocker world of yore too. One involves a shockingly anti-Semitic T-shirt designed to offend a certain party; then we have the sado-masochist youtube video about being tortured by a dominatrix. None of that is shocking by now of course.

            Today, Bill’s Crocker hides in an undisclosed location as secret as Cheney's bunker, where prying eyes and trembling fingers are not allowed to see it or know that it exists. Who knows if it is ever ridden or run? Reportedly Bill’s Crocker is mounted on a flatbed truck in its secret location, where the bike can emerge quickly at the first appearance of forest fire or a larcenous meth freak. Of meth freaks, one Ricky Turner link: https://cybermotorcycle.com/marques/...927-stolen.htm features prominently in this story, regarding the famous stolen Crocker-Bigsby front forks -- the only set ever made -- surreptitiously appropriated from a garage in California. The forks are heavy to haul by hand, so what’s a larcenous meth head to do? Turner had the brilliant idea to stash the forks in a nearby junked car.

            Turner must have forgotten about the parts, or perhaps not cared. When the car was towed for scrap later on, the tow driver had sense enough to retrieve the forks and took them to a swap meet to sell. The tow driver parted with this unique single-spring front end for the princely sum of $500 when its true value must have been north of $20K. Buyer Dan Statnekov then sold the part to Mike Madden for an unknown consideration. A reasonable value for a genuine single spring fork would have been perhaps $20- $30K in 2004. Today that figure would be far higher. Note that in this game of finders/keepers, neither party could have known the forks were stolen. Subsequent to Turner’s arrest, the rightful owner was able to parcel events together with help of a 3rd party, who (by fluke) had intimate knowledge of the fork and its whereabouts, namely with one Mike Madden. When the rightful owner approached Madden about its return, Madden’s words were to the effect that “yeah, it’s probably your part but you can’t prove it, so pound sand”. Whether Madden’s rebuke related to knowledge that the tow driver is among the dearly departed, is unknown.

            As for Crocker #5 the ‘basket case’ Jones gave to James? This author has no idea. Recently Patrick James was said to be tired of #5 and could no longer stand to look at it. He just wanted it gone. James could crush it or scrap it for metal content (according to him) but then hit on the idea of a no-charge raffle to friends. Who wants a free Crocker?? Months later, there is no indication of the fantastical result, but he no longer has it. At least something went well in the crazy world.

            The drug-addled culture of the 1960’s-70’s gives a clue. A well-heeled hippy Crocker crew originates with the counter-culture generation from whence it came. Hippies rejected capitalism, materialism, and possessive acquisition, but their subsequent diligent obsessive pursuit of same is legend. At some point, those that lived for the moment, free Hendrix concerts and free weed, lost that moment to greed and corruption. Instead of lofty ideals, hippy hypocrites fell headlong into obsessive-compulsion + acquisitive mania where relic symbols of their misspent, drug-addled, and perhaps criminal past have become legend. The Haggerty ‘Captain America’ bike from “Easy Rider” provides a prime example: Link: https://www.hotcars.com/easy-rider-c...ds-to-auction/

            Let’s ponder how Al Crocker may view this irksome Crocker malady were he alive today. Mr Crocker might be thrilled to learn that the latest Big Tank restoration sold for $704K at auction. But I’ll wager that if Al learned that any motorcycle sold for such a sum, he’d be disgusted, too. Disgusted that a motorcycle -- no matter how rare -- sells for twice the cost of a decent property, where the valuation of things is devilishly askew. (NB: Crocker 1X reportedly sold for $1M US -ed.)

            In essence, Crocker fixation reflects on the hoardish pursuit of an icon where once possessed, it ends in vaulted obscurity, not realized for its original intent: transport. The unreality of Musk's era is the pronounced absurdity where a Crocker NFT may sell for more than a fabrication. The transformation from motorcycle to iconic object is to cultish illusion where the Crocker entrepreneurial legacy is lost and obliterated. Ie the end result cannot be experienced as the original creator intended. Put simply, even an obscene amount of funding cannot purchase the original creator’s dream, or a lost era.

            Finally, this writing does not allege that any identifiable character has done anything wrong, illegal, or improper. The intent is to highlight how Crocker fixation captures the essence of a broken world where all participants have devolved to a circumspect reality where none can trust the other. Such is the crazy world -- not just of the Crocker -- but for all.
            montoya

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