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  1. #21
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    Numbers Cops at major Bike Events are brutal ...

    (Those #'s on your case would have that bike hanging from a hook)

  2. #22
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    Things here in England are a lot more relaxed, as long as the number is on the 'Log Book' (our Title) you will never get any shit about numbers,
    back 30 years ago when registering a new build or an imported Harley that was pre 70, & there are no numbers on the frame the DVLA would tell you to stamp the frame with the motor number & they would register it,
    if you didn't want to do it yourself they would send you to an appointed garage with a certificate of number & you would get a 17 digit DVLA number stamped down the backbone,
    most would just stamp the motor number purely because it looked better & was in keeping with the bike,
    a lot of old 45's were built from replacement Army issue crank cases & they could have almost any non factory number on them,
    usually the army registration number or even bare from the factory so you could stamp it with anything,
    a friend has a 45 chop & the motor number is his initials & his date of birth,
    but once you have paper on it you'll never get shit,..
    however they are getting real hot on custom frames with the doner bikes VIN restamped onto it as that is, as there in the States illegal & they will take ya bike untill you prove it isn't stolen, even then you will get charged with tampering with a VIN,...
    Last edited by tzienlee; 09-19-2020 at 7:59 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    Numbers Cops at major Bike Events are brutal ...

    (Those #'s on your case would have that bike hanging from a hook)
    No, that is a DMV issued number. It's as legit as a factory stamped number.

    Jim

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    No, that is a DMV issued number. It's as legit as a factory stamped number.

    Jim
    Oh yes it will !!!
    Ya will spend months in a court battle to prove it ...

    As I said, those numbers with have the scoot hanging off of a hook headed to the impound yard ..
    (And each day it sits there, it's racking up a storage bill)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    Oh yes it will !!!
    Ya will spend months in a court battle to prove it ...

    As I said, those numbers with have the scoot hanging off of a hook headed to the impound yard ..
    (And each day it sits there, it's racking up a storage bill)
    That is some of the bullshit I was referring to in an earlier post. What good is a state issued number if another state is not going to honor it? That makes no sense, and legally it also makes no sense. A state DMV issued number AND title is as good as anything, period.

    Jim

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    That is some of the bullshit I was referring to in an earlier post. What good is a state issued number if another state is not going to honor it? That makes no sense, and legally it also makes no sense. A state DMV issued number AND title is as good as anything, period.

    Jim
    See the problem arises what the DMV did 30 years ago doesn't apply today. Hell I bought a flatside 67 Shovel I guess it was 15 years ago that came with a title and the numbers were stamped over the original numbers. They didn't even try and hide it.

    Years ago the DMV didn't care today they do. Where those numbers should be is on a tag on the frame. Then he would be ok I would think.

    I'd bet someone bought that title on ebay or somewhere like that and the owner of the motor stamped the numbers on there.........I really doubt that a DMV did that.........

    Hell one way to find out is take the motor and the title to the local DMV and ask them??????? If it's ok he's good to go.....

    What ya think????????

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    What good is a state issued number if another state is not going to honor it?

    Jim
    California does it ALL the TIME.............. Even real numbers on early Harley's.........

    Ask how many people get blue tags on there bikes when they just move out there and want to get them registered.....
    Last edited by Tattooo; 09-19-2020 at 10:40 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    I'd bet someone bought that title on ebay or somewhere like that and the owner of the motor stamped the numbers on there.........I really doubt that a DMV did that.........
    I bought one of these when I was younger and not as smart as today. Total pain in the ass to get strightened out, will not be doing that again.

  9. #29
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    California does it ALL the TIME.............. Even real numbers on early Harley's.........

    Ask how many people get blue tags on there bikes when they just move out there and want to get them registered.....
    Been in Cali all my life and NEVER seen or heard of anyone with a dmv titled bike being taken away from someone no matter what state the title originally came from. The exception to that is as farmall says and that is patch holders and that was the feds ATF. The only time they blue tag bikes here is special construction or if it’s a bike that was purchased withouT a title. I personally have titled two pan heads that started out as cases WITH TITLES from other states with no problems and no blue tags.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    See the problem arises what the DMV did 30 years ago doesn't apply today. Hell I bought a flatside 67 Shovel I guess it was 15 years ago that came with a title and the numbers were stamped over the original numbers. They didn't even try and hide it.

    Years ago the DMV didn't care today they do. Where those numbers should be is on a tag on the frame. Then he would be ok I would think.

    I'd bet someone bought that title on ebay or somewhere like that and the owner of the motor stamped the numbers on there.........I really doubt that a DMV did that.........

    Hell one way to find out is take the motor and the title to the local DMV and ask them??????? If it's ok he's good to go.....

    What ya think????????
    What the DMV did thirty years ago, if you are referencing this particular case, DOES apply today. There is no time limit on this sort of thing.

    If the OP has a title with those numbers, in his name, then it's HIS.

    I'm with you all the way about going to DMV with it, and maybe now they will issue a blue tag for the frame, who knows? If f. (the OP) just bought this thing, then yes, a visit to the DMV is mandatory, so he can get a title issued to himself in his name. How big a bundle of snakes that will be is anyone's guess. I'm gonna have to go through it myself, and at least here in NC, the outcome is often determined by the individual you happen to be dealing with.

    Jim

  12. #32
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    Here is just ONE of the hundreds of threads in my 10 second search there are all kinda of problems with titles......

    Hey guys. So I finaly got the 76 electraglide project back together and went to title it and got the no go from the dmv so I need some help or advice.

    Here's what I have
    I have the original clear title but it is signed over to the wrong person
    I also have a statement of error from that wrong person saying I should be the registered owner. Both these documents are out of california

    Here's the problem.
    Neither of the state's I can register it in (new Jersey or North carolina) will accept the title being filled out wrong or the statement of error.

    The people in California are seriously dragging there feet on just getting a duplicate title for me to the point that I bassically gotta call that a no go.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Or I guess if somebody has a 70s shovel frame neck with a title I'd be interested.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    That is some of the bullshit I was referring to in an earlier post. What good is a state issued number if another state is not going to honor it? That makes no sense, and legally it also makes no sense. A state DMV issued number AND title is as good as anything, period.

    Jim
    Take it to the DMV here in Kansas they will send you to the Highway Patrol guy who deals with M/C and is very educated on VIN's, you will NOT leave with that engine!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pan620 View Post
    Take it to the DMV here in Kansas they will send you to the Highway Patrol guy who deals with M/C and is very educated on VIN's, you will NOT leave with that engine!
    The OP has an aftermarket case with a DMV ISSUED NUMBER. What is it about that you guys can't understand? That number is as good and as legal as any factory applied number. That is more of the bullshit about these numbers.

    Jim

  15. #35
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    Once there was a time when the impound lot got so full of "Funny Numbered" scoots that they was loaded onto a ship, taken out to sea and pushed off the deck ....

    Davy Jones was having a field day, week, month, year, eternity !!

    Last edited by Dragstews; 09-20-2020 at 8:29 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    The OP has an aftermarket case with a DMV ISSUED NUMBER. What is it about that you guys can't understand?

    Jim
    What is it that you don't understand, are you positive those numbers were put on or intended to be put on a motor by the DMV???? I say they didn't......

    By 1977 ALL numbers were put on the frame not the motor............
    Last edited by Tattooo; 09-20-2020 at 8:27 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    What is it that you don't understand, are you positive those numbers were put on or intended to be put on a motor by the DMV???? I say they didn't......

    By 1977 ALL numbers were put on the frame not the motor............
    Should have been, or could have been, both. If the OP has paperwork to match the case, there should be no issue. If f. has no PAPERWORK, yes, he is truly well fucked.

    Jim

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Should have been, or could have been, both. If the OP has paperwork to match the case, there should be no issue. If f. has no PAPERWORK, yes, he is truly well fucked.

    Jim
    I still say put the numbers on a frame and don't worry about it...........

  19. #39
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    Where I live I'd transfer title, get it in DMV, stamp a frame and never sell it (way too much is made of resale but we don't have to justify our toys because we're adults) or sell it locally to a bro who will keep it local and understands the rules of engagement. These are mostly local ride bikes today and there simply is no reason to ride to Daytona on one that's questionable since people with Pan money tend to have plenty of vehicles. (When I go to a bike event I bring a truck because it's a shopping trip and if there isn't a swap meet it ain't worth my time).

    It's only money so if in doubt I'd tear it down all the way, clean everything to eat-off-it condition and part it out on Ebay for a nice profit. Alternate alternate option since to play in that league you need piles of money anyway for the rebuild and the rest of the bike is buy a set of correctly titled cases, sell the funky cases and toddle off happily. Just because it's together in no way obliges you to keep it that way.

    Everything mechanical is replaceable. If you turn it into money and buy a complete bike you want or complete engine after adding more money you'll still spend about the same. Motorcycles are money masquerading as machinery and everything is a potential organ donor.

    Never marry what you can pimp.

  20. #40
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    Couple issues going on here. As to assigned numbers and non stock numbers, Even today some of the "Experts" at the DMV, and I am NOT talking about the quota hire at the DMV counter, but the folks running the state head office dont know what they are talking about most of the time.
    Same with LEO agencies. For a brief time, I worked for State govt and got to visit the state crime lab a few times in my work, I tried not to loiter in the firearms section too long, but you wouldnt believe the stuff they have in the vault there!

    I wrote up some stuff on the topics I know about and offered to do a manual and classes on VIN tech for certain types of vintage vehicles and I have access to those who have the correct data for the topics I am not an expert on. They think they know better.
    I reviewed some of their training materials as well as several people who had attended training on stolen vehicles and VIN issues.
    While they were spot on about some modern stuff, they were ignorant as hell on vintage. It was painful to listen to.
    Your tax dollars at work.

    The truth is, They dont hire people with any knowledge or background in motor vehicles. You simply wont find any gearheads.
    So argue common sense and rules all you like, Its about as effective as arguing with a Honey Badger. Go ahead, tell a LEO he/she is wrong. Or some arrogant mouth breather at the DMV.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    *Dealing with authority figures is a different topic, there IS ways of resolving conflict, But requires some finesse.

    Now, Hmmmm, How do I put this? Gypsy Jokers. Err ok. I know some Jokers. Its a regional club. Jokers dont play and I did a face palm when I read the first paragraph on where the bike came from. Some I know are great people, some, not so nice.

    A hell of a lot of history. They started in California, and some chapters were good friends with HA, But one chapter got in a Beef with HA and they ended up vacating Calif. Moved primarily Oregon, a few in Wash. & Idaho. If you notice their patches say
    U*S*A for this reason. Allegedly wearing a Calif rocker will get you killed. But I know one of the OGs and he still wears his Calif Rocker.
    Now, not all, but in past history, a number of GJ were involved with "Re-allocation of Motorcycle assets" If you ask local LE and a bike is stolen thats a big twin HD, the first suspects are Jokers. Fair or truthfully or not, they err, umm, have a reputation.

    ** Funny/not funny story. A federal task force was funded to tackle the sheer volume of stolen bikes. They brought in 2 local LE into the Fed Task force. They wanted to run a sting with a bait bike. They asked George Latus who owns multiple regional dealerships for a loaner. Being civic minded, He obliged. Cops came and loaded up the brand new Harley at Georges shop onto a trailer and went to lunch. While there, "Someone" stole their truck, trailer and the new Harley. The sting operation went downhill from there. No trackers had been installed yet, so no clue who stole it.
    Cops tried to stiff George on payment and he had to sue. The feds pointed to the local LE, the Locals said its the Feds problem. George said he will never help again.

    So, even in local club circles, this is not a secret and the shit hit the fan back some years when 2 associates of the Jokers came up missing and their heads were found washed up on a local river bank. (Someone failed to weight down the bodies properly). It turns out these 2 entrepreneurs tried to steal the wrong persons bikes who is in another local patch club. He "TCB". However it caused some friction between the clubs and the LE scrutiny tracked him down and he did a 10 year run for manslaughter.

    Another story from some retired HA and local clubs. There is a Portland club of Black bikers called "Brothers Free". Regionally this was considered unacceptable. One of the HA went on & on about he liked most Black people and had many Black friends (His chapter was centered in a NorCal community known as mostly black people) But he insisted it was a real problem to allow Blacks to have a club. (Irony eh?).

    So a number of Oregon clubs and some Calif HA worked together and stole the Black clubs Harleys, most of them at least. Then took them apart and put all the parts on different bikes and rode them back & forth in front of the Brothers Free Club house challenging them to do something about it. The bikes were cobbled together but as T said,, "You KNOW your parts, if you see it you know, that was the goal, make sure they knew we took their bikes" And then he said,,,"Thats why those all ride Hondas today!". He said they scrubbed numbers were they could and anything else was tossed off the Broadway Bridge into the Willamette river. The rest of the parts were distributed amongst the regional clubs.

    So, there is bikes today with parts that were formerly Brothers Free bikes, but that was years ago, And there is a shop cranking out alphabet bikes of assigned numbers and funky heritage. I worked on one last year and asked where the owner got it from. It was a legally titled bike.. but I dont think I would make that kind of purchase. 2 years back, the neighbor asked for help, His son in laws Harley was stolen. Some friends of mine after hearing the story told him they had a pretty good idea they knew who took the bikes. When informed of the Usual suspects he changed his tune. Said........"I think I will just let the insurance company deal with it".

    These days, The police dont chase the average funky numbers cases like they used to.. But I know many locals who would get very upset even having a bike, cases or frame on their property like that. Even its existence and location is good enough for a probable cause warrant and some nice folks show up and toss your entire property.
    Some of you may roll for years with no issues with funky numbers. But you are rolling the dice because someone-somewhere may choose to make an issue of it.

    I know 2 of the local Bikers rights attorneys and many cases of bikes impounded they have dealt with. Its proving a negative. Prove its NOT stolen. There was some articles in Thunder press and other biker press a few years back of some bikes impounded on their way to Sturgis and the court cases took years to resolve. They eventually got their bikes back, but the cases where they dont make the news. Even buying bikes at Auction from impound is risky these days with clean paper.

    There was some locals who had financial issues and "Arranged" to have their bikes stolen to claim insurance. The sheer volume of insurance fraud is staggering locally.

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