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  1. #1

    Default Decrease neck rake with 3 head cups?

    My bike is too low to the ground. Neck rake is too much (springer fork is too small).
    When riding in corners I have to be careful because otherwise it will hit the ground maybe.
    I can buy a new springer fork, but that's a big investment. I saw 3 degrees head cups for increasing / (decreasing?) the fork.

    So I wonder if it's possible/usual to have a 3 degree neck cup to decrease the neck rake?
    Has anyone experiences with that?
    I think it will have effect on the distance between the frame and ground, so taking corners will be easier. But will it have an effect?

    Maybe it's a crazy idea? I always can buy a longer springer fork, but this i was wondering.

    https://www.wwag.com/cgi-bin/WebObje...age=%2142606#0

  2. #2
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    Sure you can put them on backwards from the way they were intended with no problems.............

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    Yes, you can reduce rake as you describe, but that will reduce trail as well, so there will be handling changes that you may not like. It should make the steering "quicker" but that may also make the bike less stable at speed. It's all a matter of experiment.

    Jim

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    Could get you into a Tank Slapper at high speed ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Yes, you can reduce rake as you describe, but that will reduce trail as well, so there will be handling changes that you may not like.

    Jim
    Yea kinda like an 8 over with a stock rake....... Yep to each his own.......

  6. #6

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    Thanks for the responses. Well it’s a stock length springer (48cm) but the neck is a bit raked. I don’t know how much the neck is raked.

    Do you guys think the distance between the ground and frame will become more?
    Or will only the rake changing?
    Last edited by HarmBMW; 09-14-2020 at 12:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarmBMW View Post
    Thanks for the responses. Well it’s a stock length springer (48cm) but the neck is a bit raked. I don’t know how much the neck is raked.

    Do you guys think the distance between the ground and frame will become more?
    Or will only the rake changing?
    You should get more clearance, as you're using the same length front but bringing the wheel nearer the frame. I used them on my UL and went from a 14 to a 12 over it worked really nice.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarmBMW View Post
    Do you guys think the distance between the ground and frame will become more?
    Or will only the rake changing?

    3 degrees is very little and will change very little........

    You really need to figure out what rake your frame is now and go from there....... Without that your just guessing............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    3 degrees is very little and will change very little........

    You really need to figure out what rake your frame is now and go from there....... Without that your just guessing............
    At a certain point, 3 degrees becomes a LOT!

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    At a certain point, 3 degrees becomes a LOT!

    Jim
    Not with a stock length front end which is what the OP is working with................ The longer the front end the more it matters yes...... For the OP NO!!!!!!! DO THE MATH................

    He really needs to know what he is working with.........
    Last edited by Tattooo; 09-14-2020 at 5:54 PM.

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    using a calculator and making an assumption that your frame 'with some rake' is at 35 degrees, and your springer measurement of 48cm (19") is from axle to top of lower tree;

    a 3 degree less rake of 32 degrees, would raise the neck vertically by about 1/2" (0.55") and bring the axle in about 7/8"(0.84")
    Not much for that short springer, but something...what if you combined that with a different set of rockers that were less drop than what you got...maybe get an inch...
    and what if you combined that with a 1/2" spacer between the lower tree and the bottom bearing..getting close to 2" now.
    and maybe a different profile front tire with a taller aspect ratio...a bit there too.

    and what about the rear; is that low too - anything you can do there? shocks or a rigid or a softail?

    what part hits in the corners?

  12. #12

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    Thanks, I appreciate your help.
    The frame is a Santee hardtail frame, didn't measure it, but I think indeed it has an 35 degrees neck rake. Will measure it.
    If the neck raise vertically would be raised by about 0.55" that would be a big step I think.

    What parts are hitting in the corners is the jiffy stand on the left side and the footpeg on the right side.

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    Is it a new Santee (Custom Chrome), or old Santee frame? Which model?
    looking at my old '70s Santee ads, they offered +8 or +10 degree rakes on most of their rigid frames, including those with the gooseneck option.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    To raise the rear, you could cut out a section of the lower frame rail between the axle and the seatpost, bend it down, slug it and weld it.

  14. #14

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    Oh well I think it's a Santee..
    Added a picture from my Harley.
    I think it's worth a try to mount the 3 degrees head cups.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by HarmBMW; 09-15-2020 at 7:22 AM.

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    Could do a de-rake; the opposite of
    Raking Your Neck;

    "The contents below are re-printed from the May 1970 issue of Big Bike Magazine"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.choppersrule.com/chopper_...rake_neck1.asp

  16. #16

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    Phew, that's something I wouldn't try. I'm not a great welder hehe.
    I think I'm gonna try the 3 degrees head cups. Maybe, a taller front tire. If that doesn't give the wished result I'm gonna buy a new fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarmBMW View Post
    Phew, that's something I wouldn't try. I'm not a great welder hehe.
    I think I'm gonna try the 3 degrees head cups. Maybe, a taller front tire. If that doesn't give the wished result I'm gonna buy a new fork.
    Try the cups it can't hurt.............. What size is that front tire????? It looks like a 21??? Also you could get a taller rear tire and that would also help if you have the room under the fender.............

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    Oh by the way...... I think the best way to go is get a 4 over front end but I know that will cost money..... But before you start spending a lot of money working around that front end see what it will cost both ways depending on what you might be buying to make it work and it might not work in the end........

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    You didn't say what type of springer your using. An inline springer has about 3 degrees more rake than the offset springer which was actually deraked 3 degrees. I would try the cups, especially if it's an offset springer, that will tell you more about what oversize you may need to get the clearance you need.

  20. #20

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    Okay, clear. It's an inline springer.
    I'm gonna buy the 3 degrees head cups. If that isn't the right solution for me, than I buy a new fork. I'm not going to play endlessly with solutions if the fork is too small, despite a fork will cost a lot of money hehe.
    Thanks for the help guys.

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