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  1. #1
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    Default Need a Fix - Evo Electrical on Shovel

    Hey All,

    I was going through the wiring on my '77 shovel and stumbled onto an Ignition Control Module (PN: 32449-95A) and Camshaft Position Sensor (PN: 32448-95A) from a late years Evo.

    It's not wired to OEM but instead the ICM has two wires going to the coils (1 per), three wires going to the CPS, one to the kill switch/starter button, and one to ground. The CPS is the old -95A style with the tan filler that melts after awhile and is starting to show it.

    From a little research and guess work, it seems like the PO tried to rig up some kind of poor-man's Dyna 2000 Digital Ignition System and Dyna S.

    Anybody know what was going on here and recommendations of how to fix it?

    Thanks!

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    So, has this unit stopped working, or what? So far, you have described an evo ignition installed on a shovel.

    Jim

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    Unit still works just fine but it's not the cleanest install (mounted with some half assed scrap metal and unused wires hanging out). By a "fix" I meant install something that belongs/replace the melting CPS.

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    Certainly nothing wrong with the H-D ignition. And the potting material melting out of the pickup is common, and not an indication that it is going bad.

    But, if you want a different ignition for shovel, describe the bike and what you expect it to do. SuperGlide, dresser, chopper? Do you want to kick start it? Are you trying to restore it? Is it a go-fast hot rod or more stock-ish? There are several ignitions to choose from and several of us here have our own favorite.

    Jim

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    Correct. Mine isn't getting too bad yet. Sounds like it'll be ok unless the sealant melts away completely and moisture gets to the unit. According to another site, it'll lead to hard starts, meaning harder on other parts.

    I don't know a whole lot about the other options. Mainly heard about the Dyna S being the standard.

    As far as what I'm looking for out of my bike, it's a dressed down '77 FLH with the main purpose of a cruiser. Current plan is to keep the motor stock more or less; only thing I'm looking for "performance" wise is for it to cruise happily at highway speeds. I want to keep the ability of my kick and electric start, though from the little research I've done on ignition units, it sounds like you have to sway one way or the other.

    What's this word on some creating spark immediately for kick starts and others requiring a couple revolutions before starting to spark for electric start?

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    Electronic ignitions, including H-D, like the one you have now, need to see a number of input pulses before they "turn on." That can make kicking them an adventure in frustration. Most all the aftermarket electronic ignitions can be programmed to spark on the first impulse, but sometimes that programming doesn't "take."

    For kicking, I like the Dyna S because it will spark down to near zero rpm. Even a lazy kick will result in a good spark, and even points won't always do that. For a Dyna S, you will need a mechanical advance unit and a 5 ohm coil.

    You might like a full electronic unit, more like what you have now, which eliminates the need for a mechanical advance unit. There are several to choose from, like the Dyna 2000, which installs in the cam cover, with no external module. For your FLH cruiser, that would be my choice. It uses a 3 ohm coil, which you SHOULD have now, to go with the H-D ignition.

    Jim

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    Thanks for the info. This opens up a whole new can of worms.

    What does the mechanical advance do? I was trying to google it but it's a broad topic. Also, do you have any recommendations?

    So when you say the dyna 2000, do you mean the 2Ki? Why go with that over the regular Dyna S? Looks like I wouldn't need a mechanical advance which would bring the price difference closer.

    As for the 3 Ohms or 5 Ohms, is that dictated by the unit being single fire vs dual?
    Last edited by OutOfMyMind; 09-02-2020 at 5:34 PM.

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    The Dyna S is just a magnetic pickup that replaces the points with an electronic switch. So, it needs a mechanical advance unit to supply the advance curve, same as the piont & condenser ignition.

    The other electronic ignitions supply the advance curve electronically like any modern computer controlled ignition. So, no mechanical advance unit needed, and so that maintenance chore is eliminated. Dynatek, Daytona Twin Tech, Compufire, Crane, and Ultima are some of the fully electronic ignition mfg. I'm sure others will also mention their favorites.

    Jim

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    The 3 ohm / 5 ohm coil thing just refers to the resistance of the coil primary winding. Different systems need different coils. It has nothing to do with single fire / dual fire, that's another consideration.

    Jim

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    Hey JB,

    I know this is old now but I haven't been able to get in the shop or do much more research into these units.

    So you're recommending the 2ki instead of the Dyna S? Looks like I'd need the programming kit to access the 2ki to adjust things (mainly the dead revs to 0 for kicking) which is another $150 on top of the $450 for the 2ki, plus a $70 VOES. Is it really worth the extra coin over a Dyna S at less than half the price?

    Also, since this is going to stay a relatively stock bike, do you recommend the Single Fire or Dual Fire? Sounds like the only advantage I'd see is a slightly smoother idle with the Single Fire.

    Finally, you were talking about less maintenance with the fully electronic systems. What all does that entail (how often, how hard)?

    I'm still not set on anything, just trying to get all the info I can before making a decision.

    Thanks.

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    For a stockish bike, dual fire will do fine, and is simpler and cheaper.

    Your bike originally had a point and coil ignition with a mechanical advance unit. The Dyna S is the closest to that original ignition, without the hassle of servicing the points. It does use the stock mechanical advance unit, and that does need to be disassembled and greased at, say, a five to ten thousand mile interval. The Dyna S is relatively inexpensive, but you have to add the advance unit and a 5 ohm coil.

    The other choice is the full electronic ignition, like the Dyna 2000i, or one of the other choices I listed earlier. Those will fit into the cam cover for a simple, clean installation. Those units use the -83 ignition rotor that you should already have, and a 3 ohm coil that you should also already have. That cuts down on the expense of the upgrade. A VOES is good to have with the full electronic systems, and you SHOULD have one now with the system you have. Once you install, tune, and set the full electronic system, no further maintenance is necessary until/ unless something goes wrong. The $450 price tag you listed earlier I assume is for a Dyna kit including a new coil. If you have a good coil, you can just buy the module and replace the pickup and module you have now.

    It's really your choice. I had hoped others would have offered their favorite choices by now. There are several brands to choose from. I just like Dynatek products because we raced with them and they always worked. It's just what I am familiar with.

    Jim

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    Ok Jim, I'll play.
    I like the Ultima. It is sincerely a Dyna rip-off but it is cheaper by more than a few bucks too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsoftail View Post
    Ok Jim, I'll play.
    I like the Ultima. It is sincerely a Dyna rip-off but it is cheaper by more than a few bucks too.
    I am told that Dynatek makes that unit for Ultima, so not really a rip-off. But a man on shovelhead forum recently got two bad ones in a row, so maybe some QC issues?

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    I am told that Dynatek makes that unit for Ultima, so not really a rip-off. But a man on shovelhead forum recently got two bad ones in a row, so maybe some QC issues?

    Jim
    They are made by Dynatek, but to Ultima specs. There has to be a reason they cost less!

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    I think I'll stick with the Dynatek over Ultima. Like Pan620 said, there's gotta be a reason it's cheaper even though it's made by Dynatek.

    JB. I'll still need the Programming Kit to fully access the capabilities of the 2ki, right? When it comes to this, my Mac computer unfortunately isn't compatible. Not opposed to borrowing a friend's computer to work on things but like I said, how much am I gaining by dialing in the curves? Not trying to fight you on this, I just don't know what all is capable yet. It may also be possible to work with a local shop to help, but I'd really like the flexibility of doing it at home.

    I don't see a VOES installed right now. From the brief YouTubing I did, looks like they install the vac sensor in the intake manifold. I've got nothing coming out of there and running to the cone, so I would need something.

    So all in all, looks like with the 2ki ($275), programmer ($160), and VOES ($70) I'd be at $500. Dyna S ($188) and mechanical advance ($71) puts me right around $260.

    What do you lube the mechanical advance with? Just lightly with grease or...?

    Side note, with everyone talking about reliability of points and being able to field replace them as opposed to electronic ones, is it possible to go back to points in the field from a Dyna S? From the vast majority of posts, people run these electronic systems for years and years with no problems, so I'm really not worried. Just curious if it's possible.

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    I use white lithium grease on the advance unit.

    Yes, you can retrofit points in the field when using the Dyna S. I keep a ready to go point plate, point cam, and coil wire in my tool kit if traveling.

    Don't overlook that you need a 5 ohm coil for best life with the Dyna S.

    I think the 2000i has switches for the selection of the advance curves, rev limit, etc. The programming is only if you need something special, or to set for zero dead revs for kick starting. If you order from Dynatek, they should be able to provide a unit with zero dead revs already installed. You might have to go through your local shop to get it ordered.

    I will say again, I like the Dyna S, my two shovels and one evo all have one. The XL has a Dyna 2000 (an old one) but the pilot LED is burned out, and that makes static timing it impossible.

    Jim

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    Dyna tech support were helpful when I had questions and all their instructions are online. I won't run a mechanical advance with an EI since that's a part I run EI to get rid of, but on kicker bikes I run points since points maintenance is utterly trivial and when you have a kicker points will limp home longer if the charging system fails. An advance that isn't there doesn't come apart but if you inspect yours by pulling the ignition (mark the backing plate with a scriber first) you can lube it and replace when it wears.

    Field points retrofit to EI coils to get you home (I've done it) but a correct coil is needed if you want it to live long. I currently have a 2000i on one FXR, ran an Ultima with a Dyna coil on the other (worked fine for years until I pulled the engine for an S&S swap and that combo will go into something else) and points for both kicker Shovels. For e-start I run EI t protect the starter, for kicker points every time.

    Points are so easy to live with (they will never cycle as fast on an HD as they do on a V8) the main reason to run EI is just minor convenience. These are crude low revving basically agricultural engines so no need to overthink them.

    Only points "degrade gracefully" (as engineers put it) and there's enough routine maintenance on a Shovel that popping the cover to inspect them is nothing. I do run Allen head screws though because crosspoint and common screws don't hold the fastener. Both riding jackets have a folding hex key set and my carb bowls also get Allen head screws.

    I have never been stranded by points nor have I met any biker who says they were though I'm sure it's happened. Points are easy to gap and time by eye and ear with a little practice. My stock HD ignition went over 100K miles but I would replace any from that era today as preventive maintenance.

    In real life both work well enough. Choose by your use case. My goal in life is reliability and easy field maintenance.

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    Thanks for the info everyone.

    I ended up going with a Dyna S. I called up Dynatek the last night and their support guy, Larry, was awesome. Gave me the low down on their products and his opinion to go with the Dyna S, but wasn't pushy about trying to sell me on anything. Seems like I would also need the additional programming kit.

    I'll see how it goes. It's got a good track record and if it saves me a little maintenance in the long run, it'll give me more time riding or tinkering on something else.

    One last question (for now). Since my bike is both kick and electric, is there anything I need to keep in mind with set up? I keep hearing that set up has to favor either kick or electric (I assume because of the dead revs). Can anyone explain how this is hard on the starter and what I should do to set it up for both? I'm about 50/50 split between the two but if I had to choose one, I'd rather kick.

    Thanks again!

  19. #19

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    I have the DynaS on my shovel.
    Starts great electric and takes 1 to 5 kicks (mostly depending on temperature) to kickstart.

    Very easy to time.
    Happy with it

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