Bad-Boy 92 inch 1952 Pan

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  • Dragstews
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 13739

    #91
    Originally posted by farmall
    Hmm. How good are the stock repro heads?

    They are very nice indeed ... Got hard seats and sporting Shovel intakes valves ..




    Also they have the Shovel combustion chamber and 3/4" reach plugs ..


    It would be interesting to retain a plumber intake for looks if it will seal reliably

    Matter of personal choice there .. But if it was me, I'd go with the 55-up O-rings cause of they are easier to work with and no alum. threads that can give up the ghost ..

    (I'd use quality Rectorseal dope or perhaps Hylomar unless there's another anti-seize/sealant that kicks more ass.) I've removed and installed a few plumber intakes long ago on customer bikes with no comebacks but haven't any long term personal experience riding a scoot with them. The customer Pans I worked on were just beat old choppers and nothing special so I never got to get deep into studying them. This will be educational fun.

    I don't want to replace the jugs I just bought in dat stroker kit with Shovel jugs and prefer to keep it all Pan/PseudoPan.

    Yeah, I hear that ... ^^

    I've a few good Super B's with pump kits and am used to those, but how much would I be giving up HP wise ??

    A bunch of ponies would be running on three legs if you used a Linkert carb ...
    Ya just gained 26 more hungry cubes than what was there, that Super-B with a pumper is the perfect carb for the state of build your motor is headed ..


    If needed, I got a S&S Pan manifold that is used ...



    Can throw it in your pile of parts, if ya want it ??

    ... OR ...





    Buy a new Panifold from Jason Phares ..


    (and where in the powerband) running the M74 (or another and if so, which?) Linkert with that stroker kit? I've rebuilt a couple that didn't need much attention but never tuned one.

    My interest is low end grunt and highway roll-ons, not high RPMs. What cam would best suit a two-wheeled tractor? It will be a solo bike and I like tall final drive gearing but I don't lug engines.

    Later in the day I'll run a few Acc. Programs with diff. cam grinds, I'm more than sure we can pick a grind that will suit your needs ..

    Box will be a late five speed in a Softail case (for the electric start, I can kick just fine but old age is ruthless and my ass might fall off without warning). Please put that Softail trans posted above in the Farmall pile. At that price there's no point in me hunting a Delkron case and buying the little shit to use my good splined shaft takeout. Like a sore dick, I can't beat it. The door chrome will be solved with kicker kit.

    Can throw it in your pile of parts ... ??
    Kinda thought you'd like that deal ... It's now belongs to you ...
    Ya do know that 5th gear will need to be changed out from belt spline to a chain spline .... Be mighty hard to run a belt for final drive ...
    And on the motor sprocket shaft if we run the 55-64 shaft it will be bout 3/8 of a inch short to line up with the 5-speed trans ...
    We can get a 70-up special shaft that fits our needs ... That way there will be no need for attaining a special motor pully ..


    As for threads maybe it would be better to tack my adventures onto this one for a Pan drivetrain MegaThread comparing options since the builds are similar.
    MegaThread it is ....
    Last edited by Dragstews; 10-28-2021, 4:16 PM.
    Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

    Comment

    • farmall
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2013
      • 9983

      #92
      Vulcanworks makes nice stuff so I'll likely get one of their sprockets.

      Confirm the 70-up shaft which will make belt drives easy to sort out.

      Will do O-ring heads for easy maintenance and stick with my loyal Super Bs. I'll need an intake manifold too.

      I've a new Dyna 2000i to go into that breaker housing but gotta dig out a trigger cup etc before sending it your way.

      Comment

      • Dragstews
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2010
        • 13739

        #93
        Originally posted by farmall
        Vulcanworks makes nice stuff so I'll likely get one of their sprockets.

        Confirm the 70-up shaft which will make belt drives easy to sort out.

        Will do O-ring heads for easy maintenance and stick with my loyal Super Bs. I'll need an intake manifold too.

        I've a new Dyna 2000i to go into that breaker housing but gotta dig out a trigger cup etc before sending it your way.
        All great choices ...
        Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

        Comment

        • oneuptom
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2010
          • 149

          #94
          My first stab at building a little virtual Pan motor for torque. I haven't entered the suggested cam timing for improvement or anything else different yet. Small M8 valves, flattop pistons with a little chamber quench & small cam. In the real world should run just fine on premium fuel. Room for improvement yet with refinements!


          Bore=3.33250 Stroke=4.25000 74.13940960 Cubic Inches @ 5300 RPM Intake System= 100.00000 VE%
          Complete Intake System Flow @28in.= 151.5968 -to- 162.3386 CFM @ 0.470000 Lift (0.00000 VE% Loss)
          Cylinder Head Intake Port Flow @28in.= 151.5968 -to- 162.3386 CFM @ 0.470000 Lift (100.00000 VE%)
          Cylinder Head Exhaust Port Flow @28in.= 122.3674 -to- 140.3231 CFM @ 0.470000 Lift (with Flow Pipe)

          Dyno HP Weather Correction Equation = 8• SAE J607 (June1974) • STP • SuperFlow-FTQ • (Default)
          Air Correction=1.00000000 Station Barometer=29.92000000 Air DegF=60.00 Vapor Pressure=0.000
          HP Correction Factor= 1.000000000 Fuel Type= Gasoline • Race Gas • HP and Torque increase
          Fuel BTU=19000.0 Air/Fuel Ratio=13.200000 BSFC=0.483164 Mixture Distribution= 90.0 Quality= 90.0
          Dry Sump • Regular Oil • 0.0 inHg • 0.0 kPa Vacuum • Harmonic Damper Efficiency= 0.0 %
          Engine Application = Race Engine • Low-to-Mid-Range RPM • Torque and HP
          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Camshaft = Solid Roller Lifter
          600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Level=4 Level=5 Level=6 Level=7 Piston FPM
          Peak HorsePower @ 5300 RPM 78.6 79.6 80.6 81.6 3754.17
          Peak Torque Lbs-Ft @ 3900 RPM 85.6 86.7 87.8 88.9 2762.50

          HorsePower per CID 1.060 1.073 1.087 1.101 Peak HP Fuel
          Torque per Cubic Inch 1.155 1.170 1.184 1.199 consumed in
          Peak Torque BMEP in psi 174.2 176.4 178.6 180.9 Lbs./ Hour
          Throttle Plate CFM @ 1.5 inHg. 114 126 133 139 39.4

          Comment

          • Dragstews
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2010
            • 13739

            #95


            .... ....

            Last edited by Dragstews; 10-28-2021, 5:58 PM.
            Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

            Comment

            • oneuptom
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2010
              • 149

              #96
              The cams for this little exercise were the Andrews A2 grind advanced 2 degrees. 10:1 static compression

              Comment

              • flatman
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2017
                • 550

                #97
                I am not understanding flattop pistons and a little quench? Weld up heads for bathtub combustion chamber?

                Comment

                • oneuptom
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 149

                  #98
                  Originally posted by flatman
                  I am not understanding flattop pistons and a little quench? Weld up heads for bathtub combustion chamber?
                  Precisely!.. Keep all the heat in the chamber to do work. Flattops have smallest surface area to absorb heat, and in the real world would also be coated to slow heat transfer

                  Comment

                  • Dragstews
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 13739

                    #99
                    Originally posted by oneuptom
                    Precisely!.. Keep all the heat in the chamber to do work. Flattops have smallest surface area to absorb heat, and in the real world would also be coated to slow heat transfer
                    Fellow up in Canada did a few motors like that "Doug Coffee" shop's name was "Headquarters ...

                    Said the valve angles didn't lend themselves to work well .. ??
                    Last edited by Dragstews; 10-28-2021, 10:10 PM.
                    Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                    Comment

                    • Dragstews
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 13739

                      On the 52 good progress has been made ...



                      Got the C.B. & Gen idle gears dialed in to having .005" end-play ..
                      New Gen gear closed up the back-lash greatly ...

                      Then a problem stuck it ugly head up ... !!



                      Got to the point of pressuring up the oil system for a check on flow to the rods and found this ... ^^

                      Yep, the welsh plug was leaking ...

                      OK ... Alright ... Time to hunt a new plug ..

                      Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                      Comment

                      • oneuptom
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 149

                        Originally posted by Dragstews
                        Fellow up in Canada did a few motors like that "Doug Coffee" shop's name was "Headquarters ...

                        Said the valve angles didn't lend themselves to work well .. ??
                        Maybe he was using really big valves?.. The names a bit familiar but nothing coming to me yet.

                        I realized afterwards that with the small valves I could flatten the angle to bring the chamber down... but my calculations tell me
                        I can leave the angles alone and with hardly any welding at all & using the flattops get my 10:1

                        Comment

                        • Dragstews
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 13739

                          Doug has a Twitter account .... Doug Coffey (@dougcoffey1950) | Twitter

                          Ya might want to bump heads with the Fellow ... Since he has already been there and done that ..
                          Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                          Comment

                          • oneuptom
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 149

                            Originally posted by Dragstews
                            Doug has a Twitter account .... Doug Coffey (@dougcoffey1950) | Twitter

                            Ya might want to bump heads with the Fellow ... Since he has already been there and done that ..
                            Thanks!.. Had a good look round his site and see that he's found his asymmetrical cam lobes are helping to deter reversion somewhat and help pick up the bottom end. Nothing there for me though, everything too big for my needs.

                            Undoubtedly a great guy to run things past if you needed!.. And those Canadians love to talk

                            Comment

                            • oneuptom
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 149

                              I guess Doug is retired now.

                              I ran his Evo HQ-0024 Rumble Stick in the Pan simulation and lost a few hp & ft lbs. I tried it at 10.5:1 also but still didn't recover the losses. And it made the build less pump gas friendly with a higher dynamic compression. Cam sure would gentle on the valve-train though but doesn't like the Pan's RA ratio I guess.

                              The M8 valves are 2 tenths longer than the Pan valves so I can reduce the chamber radius by 3 tenths to really shrink down the chamber volume. I also like the M8 intake valve shape better for the exhaust, not so reversion prone by the looks of it

                              Edit: Comp Cams SHV 242/242 R104 (Early) stock 104 LSA 86.7 ft lbs
                              Comp Cams SHV 242/242 R104 (Early) custom 113 LSA 81.6 hp - 89 ft lbs torque

                              IIRC... Comp Cams will widen the LSA, custom grind their cams?
                              Last edited by oneuptom; 10-30-2021, 4:32 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Dragstews
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 13739

                                Impressive numbers from having so small of cubes ...
                                _____________________________________________

                                Huge box came in today ...

                                ... /// https://youtu.be/sGEjx4syPwo \\\ ...

                                Had some real relic's in it ....



                                What I'm seeing is a cam cover with no war wounds ... Been a coon's age since I seen a Oem cover from the 40's looking that good !!

                                Super early tappet blocks also are in grand shape for being Alum (48-52) still std. size too .. !!

                                Oil pump been converted with having a dummy governor outer plate installed ... That's a plus ...
                                We can improve it with getting a set speed-up gears .. Be the same speed that the 73-up motors has ...

                                Breather gear is a leftover from the Knuck era ...
                                Again can improve it by replacing it with a S&S gear ...



                                Dang .... No war wounds on the case, threads all look good, no damage on the mounts ... Don't get to see many of this era that's in this good of shape ...
                                Must say this scooter has been taken well care of over the years ...
                                Last edited by Dragstews; 10-30-2021, 5:25 PM.
                                Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                                Comment

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