Cam vs static compression

[JBinNC]

I have no desire any more to ride a motorcycle in cold weather. But when I lived in Grand Junction, we would go somewhere most weekends. Usually to a bar for a hot buttered rum. I would not do that now if you paid me. Plus, in the humid South, cold cuts right through you.

Jim

[Ratty78]

Yes, I find that results are lower at kicking speeds. And I find exactly the same: the gauge levels off at the fourth or fifth kick.

The speed matters because you get a little inertia fill of the cylinder even at cranking speed.

Jim

Good to know. What kind of variation WOD you expect to see if you tested compression with the starter vs your leg on the same bike? Obviously not 50%. Just curious.

What you expect valve job labor to be? The lady who gave me a quote on the phone didn't seem super confident in that quote, she only found one sku referencing valves, so it came with a disclaimer. Pretty sure their the only game in town for vintage HD work and they do a lot of them.

[JBinNC]

The bill should be about 60/40, labor/parts. So on a thousand dollar job, $600 labor and the balance parts. A competent shop will also want to go through the rocker boxes to check the rocker arm bushings and face the rocker arm pads.

If a good job is done, with valve stem seals and proper spring set-up, the heads will be better than H-D produced them, and they will run for a LONG time.

Jim

[Ratty78]

Haha yeah man I hear ya. I have decent warm weather gear, and without boring you with the details, as much riding time as possible is pretty important to me.

But yeah Albuquerque is about 5400' above sea level, and usually when I ride for any reason other than commuting I gain elevation. This morning was the coldest day of the year at about 15* when I first checked the thermometer around 8:00am. That's a little colder than I'd prefer tbh haha but it warms up quick and we will have a high around 45-55 I'd guess.

[Ratty78]

That is MUCH higher than I would have expected. Knocking on a set of superstocks for that price. Damn. We'll see what they say I guess.

[JBinNC]

I would expect a kick test number to be down 10 - 15% compared to an electric start test.

Jim

[rockman96]

The blue Teflon gaskets are very bad for this and should be avoided at any cost. The various "fire ring" gaskets are preferred.
Jim

Do you like the fire ring type more than the plain copper gaskets?

I'm serious about that; pay to get it done correctly the first time rather than to have it done again later. I have reworked hundreds of sets of shovel heads, some of which had "just been done " by someone who did not know what he was doing. Your bike, your call.

JB is giving great advice here. But on top of that, know who and what you are dealing with... Back in the early 90's I dropped $1100 to what was supposed to be a reputable Flo company in southern CA for some port work, spark plug hole repairs, and valve guides. I think the owner of that company is capable of good work and that I was a victim of his cheap labor, either way I was screwed in the end and lost money/time, even spending more for something that was supposed to be top notch. I mean, it was blowing smoke after couple thousand miles... spark plug threads were backing out, guides literally pulling out of the heads with my fingers, etc. It was sad. So unless you have someone local and know what you are getting, I'd consider outright purchasing some aftermarket heads ready to bolt on. Or, I'd ship the to JB.

[farmall]

That is MUCH higher than I would have expected. Knocking on a set of superstocks for that price. Damn. We'll see what they say I guess.

Ya can always buy those then sell your old heads and the math may beat putting money into the old heads. I don't know how much S&S marks its stuff up to dealers these days so dunno how much wiggle room a particular independent may have. Sell your old heads for several hundred bucks and the net price can be reasonable.

Freight is reasonable on that weight a package so if you want your old ones done well consider shipping to someone who has done many of them, perhaps JB, if you don't opt for replacement.

The lady who gave me a quote on the phone didn't seem super confident in that quote, she only found one sku referencing valves, so it came with a disclaimer. Pretty sure their the only game in town for vintage HD work and they do a lot of them.

There are a wide variety of valves and I'd defer to JB, Dragstews etc since they've done so many heads along with building custom engines. When a shop is the "only game in town" they may indeed be good machinists but that doesn't always mean they've WIDE experience with a variety of parts vs. doing the same basic tasks to spec.

[10scDust]

Has anyone dealt with Dragonman out of Colorado?
I understand he does head work on shovelheads, even welds up and re-machines them as needed.
Just a thought.

[Guest]

Has anyone dealt with Dragonman out of Colorado?
I understand he does head work on shovelheads, even welds up and re-machines them as needed.
Just a thought.

from what I have heard, read & from watching his videos I'd avoid him like the plague !!,... no one has a good word to say for his mechanics or ethics, he's well known to charge more than quoted, takes longer & I have seen some very dubious mechanics & short cuts taken, sure someone here will say the same,

https://www.v-twinforum.com/threads/never-send-your-parts-to-dragonman.21093/

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3697

[farmall]

I've heard nothing about Dragonman which would lead me to deal with him but have no personal experience with him either. I've spun wrenches on all sorts of stuff for a very long time and when JB and Drag speak they clearly know their shit.

UPS stores etc can pack heads securely and you can make your own custom crate to hold anything in place then they can box that.

Shovel heads can be bolted to a piece of scrap plywood (not fiberboard which is shit because hardware pulls through) using the head bolts then boxed using a same-sized piece of plywood and some 2x4.

Shipping a few more miles makes little difference and you can weigh the parts then get quotes in advance.

[Ratty78]

A lot of good info, thanks y'all!

Quick little update, I did a leak down test.

@100psi work pressure the rear cylinder held 92psi, audibly leaking from the exhaust, and a very quiet slow bubbling from the oil tank. The front cylinder also held 92 of 100 with audible air from the exhaust and an even quieter gurgle from the oil tank.

What seems odd to me is that I can only see 8% leakage but I'm losing presumably at least 50% of my compression pressure. I've always considered 5% to be a healthy motor so it's certainly out of spec, but I was honestly expecting the number to be higher.

JB suggested that I could be losing 10-15% on a kickstart test, so let's say we throw that back in, best case that's only going to get me around 70psi of compression.

I wondering if the Pistons I installed were 7.5:1 instead of 8.5? I think the FL shovels came with 7.5:1 pistons from the factory, anybody know what compression pressure should be on7.5:1 pistons? Thatight account for the numbers being lower than expected.

[Ratty78]

Ya can always buy those then sell your old heads and the math may beat putting money into the old heads. I don't know how much S&S marks its stuff up to dealers these days so dunno how much wiggle room a particular independent may have. Sell your old heads for several hundred bucks and the net price can be reasonable

A set of superstocks seems to sell online for an average of about 1400. If I sold my old heads I could maybe get down around $1000 out of pocket, which puts right in the ball park of what JB suggested I proper rebuild should cost. So it's about a dead ass wash on the cost. Although JB may have been including rocker boxes in those numbers, which would still need attention.

Either way is more than I can throw at it anytime soon. Which hurts. Really don't like to be without my bike. Good chance I'll try to get it done in the garage and hopefully come up with something decent.

[rockman96]

I don't want to step on any toes here, but you may want to look into a set of Ultima heads. I think they sell for around 1/2 what the S&S do, and they get rated pretty highly. Just a thought.

[Ratty78]

I don't want to step on any toes here, but you may want to look into a set of Ultima heads. I think they sell for around 1/2 what the S&S do, and they get rated pretty highly. Just a thought.

Oh sick dude thank you for that ��