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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman96 View Post
    This wasn't even a scene. Why was he even pointing/shooting at a cinematographer? Whatever the context, it was really stupid and totally avoidable.
    Orlly?

    Who reported that?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    Orlly?

    Who reported that?
    The report on local news this morning is that it was a fire at the camera scene and she was standing next to the camera. The news still hasn't reported how many seasoned hands he ran off because of safety concerns and replaced with unqualified help.
    Dusty

  3. #23
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    Oh, wow.. Well, as a producer, there may be liability for that.

    You staff the place with unqualified people and someone gets hurt? It is reasonable to assume it could have been avoided if you were more careful.

  4. #24
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    It all boils down to having live rounds on a movie set ...
    WTF was somebody thinking .. ??

    Granted making a movie look real is what it's all about, but for the "Love of the Lord" that can be added in at the time of editing with CGI ...

    You would think it would have sunk in by now ..

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    Orlly?

    Who reported that?
    Sorry, that was a (wrong) assumption on my part... and you know what they say about that. Anyway, I guess its something they call "shooting the camera".

    Here's the thing that could potentially hang Baldwin; it will definitely result in civil action... The "armorer" he hired has had multiple safety related complaints prior to this event. With him knowing this and still hiring the stupid bitch, he'd better get damn good lawyers.

  6. #26
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    Okay.. Now they are reporting three guns on a cart, left outside a church because of "Covid Regulations" Whatever that means? Maybe the guns has Covid? Fuck, I dunno.. But that's what they said?

    But, it kind of implies they were unattended.

    The Armorer loaded the guns and placed them there to comply with "regulations"

    THEN, Baldwin is practicing a scene where he shoots at the camera..

    The Assistant Director hands him a gun to practice with from the cart. It goes off during the practice and, you know what happens.

    So, I guess it boils down to:

    1) Did the armorer chick load the proper gun in the proper way?

    2) Did the AD pick up the right gun from the cart, and hand it to Baldwin?

    3) Were the weapons tampered with in any way while they were sequestered outside the church?

  7. #27
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    It doesn't appear that Baldwin did anything unreasonable here.

  8. #28
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    It began as a blur last Thursday, but as more information is revealed, the scene that’s now coming into focus is one where costs were cut and serious safety issues were overlooked. The accidental fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on Alec Baldwin’s Rust set now seems more like the result of a perfect storm of a long list of dangerous and unchecked problems.

    Hutchins, 42, a rising star in a field with few women and the mother of a 9-year-old son, was shot after star and producer Alec Baldwin discharged what was believed to be a prop gun on the set of his new film, Rust, filming in New Mexico. His director, Joel Souza, 48, was injured.

    Let’s begin with the latest information first: According to an affidavit obtained by The Washington Post, Assistant Director (AD) Dave Halls, the man who handed the gun to Baldwin, was fired from the 2019 film Freedom’s Path after a crew member was injured when a gun misfired on the set.

    “Halls was removed from set immediately after the prop gun discharged,” a producer who declined to be identified by name told the Post. “Production did not resume filming until Dave was off-site. An incident report was taken and filed at that time.”

    John Simmons, the first Black vice president to serve in the American Society of Cinematographers, told Daily Kos that a good AD fights for the safety of everyone on the set.

    “Sadly, from what I’ve learned, the guy [Hall] put the speed of the shooting schedule ahead of safety. And on another set, he asked the armorer why they had to have the safety speech every time they used a weapon. His reputation is that he’s not known for safety...from what I’ve heard,” Simmons says.

    Hannah Gutierrez, 24, was the armorer on Rust. It was her job to make sure all of the guns were safe to handle. The affidavit states that Gutierrez left three prop guns on a cart outside the building. Halls grabbed one and handed it to Baldwin for rehearsal. He announced, “Cold gun,” while handing the gun to Baldwin, meaning it did not contain live rounds.

    “No crew member should be handling a weapon of any kind other than the armorer, designated prop person or actor. Full stop,” Jeremy Goldstein an Israeli military veteran and a Hollywood armorer told the Post. “The armorer must clear all firearms with the [first assistant director] when bringing them to set, and verify that they are unloaded. Then the armorer does the same with the actor, but the firearm does not leave the custody of the armorer or designated prop person.”

    Serge Svetnoy, a gaffer who worked with Hutchins on Rust and held her after she was shot, blames the inexperience of Gutierrez and the producers for cutting costs.

    “Dear Producers, by hiring professionals, you are buying peace of mind for yourself and the people around you,” Svetnoy wrote on his Facebook page. “It is true that the professionals can cost a little more and sometimes can be a little bit more demanding, but it is worth it. No saved penny is worth the LIFE of the person!”

    Prop Master Neal W. Zoromski told The Los Angeles Times he was offered the gig on Rust, but turned it down after getting a “bad feeling.” He added that there were “massive red flags” around the production.

    Zoromski says he felt the budget of the film—$7 million—was too small, and he wasn’t getting the answers he wanted around timeframe. He said that it takes weeks or months to hire a prop master, and they were talking to him just a couple of weeks before the shoot was scheduled to start.

    Additionally, Zoromski asked the producers for five technicians but was told it was a “low-budget” production and they would use props from a local prop house. He then asked for two technicians, one as an assistant and the other as an armorer, but Rust producers insisted one person could do the job of both.

    “You never have a prop assistant double as the armorer,” Zoromski told the Times. “Those are two really big jobs.”

    Monday, TMZ reported that according to multiple sources involved with the Rust production, the gun had also been used by the crew for target practice—which would explain why there were real bullets versus blanks in the chamber of the gun.

    “We're told this off-the-clock shooting — which was allegedly happening away from the movie lot — was being done with real bullets ... which is how some who worked on the film believe a live round found its way in one of the chambers that day," TMZ reports.

    Late Friday, the Times reported that in the hours leading up to the fatal shooting, several union camera crew workers walked off the Rust set.

    The union crew had been struggling with labor issues for days, one of which was failed promises for money for hotel rooms closer to the set. As union members prepared to walk, a crew member on the set tells the Times, nonunion crew members appeared to replace them.

    Additionally, there’d been two misfires earlier in the week with the prop gun that killed Hutchins. “There was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set,” a crew person told the Times.

  9. #29
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    They couldn't afford CGI ... ??



    What's the cost of a life .. ??
    Last edited by Dragstews; 4 Weeks Ago at 4:26 PM.

  10. #30
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  11. #31
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    The crew using the weapon for target practice was idiotic, and begs the question where the live rounds came from.

    Ban the use of live rounds, blanks and live firearms on movie sets completely and solve the problem forever because the real problem (a dumb diversity hire bitch who didn't totally oversee and control the weapons) can not be solved because it might hurt someones fee-fees.

    Movie suppliers already supply dummy full auto weapons by installing dummy receivers (for example) into military weapon parts kits. Many sellers frequent gun shows where FA weapons are legal and those interested can chat with them. There is big money being armorer to Hollywood but those arms need not be functional. That work pays for some very cool collections. One person could be a competent armorer if they followed military rules even dumb boots managed by the millions without lighting each other up.

    Shit's so simple a libtard could do it (but chose not to):

    No live rounds.
    No freely accessible weapons.
    All grabass gets instant banning from the industry including fuckery like target practice with movie weapons.
    No live weapons on set unless a security guard non-player is wearing them on their person.
    All prop explosives are personally escorted or locked up. No loose anything anywhere.
    All personnel who touch a weapon get a day's training just like the Air Force does annually. Repeat for every movie. (Can't afford that? Use CGI)

    All actors personally clear and inspect their chambers, cylinders and magazines as a G.I. does theirs. Even if someone hands you a weapon they just inspected, you inspect it.

  12. #32
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    I keep hearing/seeing it said that "He's just an actor, he can't be expected to know about gun safety". As if this was the first time Baldwin had ever touched a firearm.

    Bullshit.

    I can think of at least 6 movies I've seen in which Baldwin used firearms, including "The Getaway" in 1994, where he used several firearms throughout the movie. Obviously someone instructed him in how to use those weapons, after all, I seriously doubt Baldwin was born knowing how to load, hold, and operate a Benelli M3 Super 90 12 gauge.

    I have to assume that at some point, on at least one of those movie sets, or prior to filming, that someone taught him basic firearm safety. Those 6 movies were produced by major movie studios. I have to believe they would have required the actors to receive basic firearm safety instruction. I also have to believe that any PROFESSIONAL armorer would make damn sure an actor knew and understood basic firearm safety BEFORE ever handing them a firearm, even one loaded with blanks.
    Last edited by EVILBLACKSABRE; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:54 AM.

  13. #33
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    Baldwin "They don't want me to comment on the on-going investigation, but my production is a well oiled machine"

    Well Alec....you just did "comment" and by well oiled machine....you must be referring to the gun cuz everything else looks kinda F-ed up.

    Did the interviewer respond to him.....nope, just some other softball questions about his beard or lack there of.....it's like he shot someone in Chicago or St. Louis....media just doesn't give a shit.

  14. #34

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    I feel sorry for him, and I do not understand why so many people hate him for this tragedy. He's an actor, it's not his job to worry about props. Then where is his fault? Now he has a lot of problems and guilt for the death of a person, I will not wish this on anyone.

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    ^^^^
    Read this entire thread.
    There is plenty that is his fault.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy00 View Post
    I feel sorry for him, and I do not understand why so many people hate him for this tragedy. He's an actor, it's not his job to worry about props. Then where is his fault? Now he has a lot of problems and guilt for the death of a person, I will not wish this on anyone.
    He owns the production C. He's ultimately responsible for the actions of the Co. Plus, he was playing "practicing his cross draw" with a real...loaded gun!

  17. #37
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    He's the drunk driver that killed someone ... !!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    He's the drunk driver that killed someone ... !!
    Exactly!

  19. #39
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    See : https://qr.ae/pGxQQ5

    For the Pictures, video clips and commentary, This guy writes some good stuff on Movies, Scripts and the
    business in general.

    Ken Miyamoto
    Produced Screenwriter, Former Sony Story Analyst, Blogger
    Worked at Sony Pictures Entertainment (company)
    Lives in Wisconsin
    57.8M content views3.1M this month
    Top Writer2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014 and 1 more
    Published WriterHuffPost, Slate, Forbes and 1 more

    Why, with all of the modern special effects, do TV and movie gunshots sound more fake than years ago?

    (Really, a cut & paste doesnt do this justice, just see the link and read it there, )

    "Why, with all of the modern special effects, do TV and movie gunshots sound more fake than years ago?

    Micheal Mann’s Heat is the BEST example of how to capture the actual sounds of the weapons. But it took a specific tactic to record that sound.
    I’ll let Mann tell you himself, via his interview with Vulture:
    “For the big shootout at the bank, I had a sound design of edited sound effects that was very elaborate for all the gunfire. It would have taken five days to mix. And, they weren’t as effective as the actual sound from when we shot the scene, the production tracks. And, so that’s what I wound up using . We shot with full-load blanks, meaning with full charges of gunpowder in them. And, that’s the sound the weapons actually made and you couldn’t imitate or improve upon them. It was terrifying as hell because we were in these glass and steel canyons and the gunfire reverberated in a certain real way, so they had an authenticity to the place that really was unique.”

    Most productions don’t want or need to go that extra mile to get the sound right. Why? Well, basic gun sounds depend on where the perspective is. Real gunshots sound different depending on where you are.
    If you’re the shooter, they’re very loud.
    If you’re the receiver of the bullet (the one getting shot), depending on the distance, it could be more of a zip or pop.
    If you’re a witness to the shooting, again, it depends on the distance.
    So how are you supposed to convey that for the view of the camera, which ranges from closeups, medium shots, master shots, etc.?
    That’s why most movies just throw in some cool sound design. Audiences don’t care. And all that the filmmakers need to do is to entertain and make the scenes exhilarating.
    The shootout scene in Heat worked because it was shot within a perspective of the camera really being in the midst of this chaotic shootout in the streets of Los Angeles.
    We were seeing most of the action from a “witness” perspective. There are close-ups here and there, and different angles, but the whole concept is that realistic approach to give the scene some authenticity.


    In other films, authenticity is not as vital. It’s all about communicating that the good guys and bad guys are shooting at each other. That’s it. So the sound design will be more about the BOOMING sounds that add to the chaos.
    In real life, gunshots are surprisingly not those BOOMING AND SPECIFICALLY CLEAR SOUNDS. In real life, they vary depending on where you are. And that’s not as exciting in a movie theater or via home theater speakers.
    If you want realistic gun sounds, go to Heat and movies like Black Hawk Down.

    Please follow The Tao of Screenwriting for more fun Movie/TV discussions, as well as screenwriting and film industry insights. Ask me questions. Come visit this “dojo” for screenwriting, movie, television, film/TV industry insights, inspiration, writing exercises & best practices, tips, advice, and industry hacks.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    However there is some really good commentary besides my nattering by a well versed movie production pro.
    Charles Maynes
    Works at Independence
    Studied at Grossmont
    Lives in Los Angeles
    " there is a little more to the truth in the matter-
    films are subject to OSHA standards as well, and are supposed to be somewhat controlled and safe in how loud they can be- though many films can be deafening, it is still an objective for the industry. since we have a practical ceiling of about 105 dBa for the maximum level of any sound in a film, an acoustic sound (like a gun shot) can be upwards of 160 dBa for its peak transient. So we have to limit that transient into something typically much lower- as well, when mixing together all the sounds in a film or TV show, there has to be space for both the dialog (known as production audio, and ADR, which is replaced audio recorded after filming) and Music. In the example of the HEAT gun fight (which is perhaps one of the best gunfights in cinematic history) the production audio specifically focused on the gun sounds themselves- not the dialog and voices- as those were expected to replaced afterwards. as far as “accurate” gun sounds are concerned, it was only relatively recently that accuracy became a priority for film makers, and even video games. They tended towards the paradigm of older Hollywood films like Dirty Harry.
    &
    Heat was actually mixed for both digital, and analog format playback- analog has an even smaller dynamic range than the digital formats do-
    cinematic sound systems (presently) expect the average level of a film to rest between 70 and 80 dba and not go louder than 105 dba (the specification is for -20db from full-scale digital level equals 85 dBa sound pressure). peaks can not go higher than 105 dBa with a properly calibrated speaker system.
    OSHA sound exposure regulations go back to 1981
    &
    ( Interesting! On this subject ,do you think Tenet adheres to this? It was unbearable for many to watch it in the cinemas.)

    Christopher Nolan mixes have been criticized often for their clarity. the one thing that is interesting is that inside that theatrical specification, a very harsh sounding mix, which is quite assaultive can easily live. Films like HEAT came out great as did Terminator 2, Blackhawk Down and Saving Private Ryan, all with much action and gunfire- it was the skill of the sound rerecording mixers, and the discretion of the directors which allowed for that- sadly, Michael Mann films since then tend to have less great sound tracks, mainly due to Mann himself, not the people who did the editorial and mixing work.
    ----------------------------------------------
    # And a helpful little tip I learned from a special forces guy, Snap-Bang,. In real life, combat where someone is shooting at you, there's a technique, goes by different names but I call it snap bang. From long distance the gunshot is delayed based on distance, humidity, and to some degree terrain. But bullets make a snap, pop or whizzing noise when they (hopefully) pass by you. Once you learn that sound you also learn to evade & cover. But you start counting, “ one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three, etc etc" until you finally hear the BANG from the gun that fired it. There's a formula that will give you a approximate range it was fired from. If you are in a remote area, some one could be shooting at you from a ridge, mountain top or next village so if you at least have a approximate range you can make a decision on where to aim at, avoid, or call in artillery, or a airstrike.

    FM 28-8 M14 M14A1 Rifle Marksmanship. Basically it's similar to estimating the range of lightening by counting the separation of the thunder and flash.
    When you hear the supersonic "crack" of the bullet, you start counting and listen for the "bang" from the muzzle. You mentally align the crack you hear over your head to the thump/bang of the muzzle, there by directing you to the source of the shot.

    To estimate the range you start a quick count (5 counts per second), then multiply the count by 100 to get the distance.
    Example, "Crack" 1,2,3,4 "Thump" = 400 meters/yards. As you can imagine it is a very rough estimation.

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