Early Pan Drive Side Timken

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  • Dragstews
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 13739

    #16
    Originally posted by oneuptom

    There's got to be several other ways to skin this cat also?
    There is ....



    Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

    Comment

    • JBinNC
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2018
      • 2717

      #17
      Originally posted by Dragstews
      There is ....



      Ah, the 9028 bearing. MUCH easier to do than the 9029 that the OP proposed.

      Jim

      Comment

      • Dragstews
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2010
        • 13739

        #18
        Originally posted by JBinNC
        Ah, the 9028 bearing. MUCH easier to do than the 9029 that the OP proposed.

        Jim
        "Easier" ...

        Don't think I would have choose that word ...
        Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

        Comment

        • confab
          Senior Member
          • May 2019
          • 1337

          #19
          Originally posted by Dragstews
          There is ....



          What are we looking at, exactly?

          A timken retrofit?

          Comment

          • JBinNC
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2018
            • 2717

            #20
            Originally posted by Dragstews
            "Easier" ...

            Don't think I would have choose that word ...
            Hey, the OP says he's a machinist.

            Jim

            Comment

            • Dragstews
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2010
              • 13739

              #21
              Originally posted by confab
              What are we looking at, exactly?

              A timken retrofit?
              Not a retrofit using the 70 year old left case, it now can be made into "Wall Art"



              What you're eyeballing is a new left (356-T6) case with the bearing steel support casted in just like Harley did it back in the good old days, will ya have a look at the giant lugs the case steel insert has locking it in the alum.
              Best part, amug many, is it has bone stock looks that makes it very hard to tell that it wasn't a Oem case from yesteryear..

              About the work to do this ... The re-pop case has to be matched to your Oem right side case, comes with having the deck, bore, motor mount pads and center steel bearing support all having .040"-.060" more meat so the machining to match has no problems attainting a match ...
              Vin numbers pad is blank, gotta stamp in your old numbers and ... Da-Daaaa

              (Only your hairdresser will know for sure)


              The bearing used is the 69-up with the 70-up motor shaft seal in play ..
              Even 41-47 Kuncks can now run a Timken .
              Sorry 36-40 EL Guys ya still got to run the straight bearing, Timken not available ....
              Last edited by Dragstews; 10-19-2021, 1:49 PM.
              Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

              Comment

              • oneuptom
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2010
                • 149

                #22
                There is ....
                Thanks bud!!

                IIRC the magazine article I referenced was done by some racers, "Rawlin's Motor Maniacs" maybe?

                After measuring my case insert it's almost certain they used the 1.7810 cup O.D. bearing also. I wouldn't even consider using the bigger bearing!

                So what I have in mind is a 74 incher using 0.020 over EL jugs (thicker walls are better when it comes to iron staying round) and a 4.25" stroke, as much CR ratio as it takes, (much, much chamber work too) to produce 90 ft lbs at a relatively low rpm. Heaviest custom flywheels I can get my hands on... to mostly reduce the vibes

                In order of importance to me

                1) lowest vibration possible
                2) reliability
                3) decent power everywhere starting from right off idle

                Comment

                • flatman
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2017
                  • 550

                  #23
                  If I remember that right thats and old racer trick. yields 68 inches, However maybe its the other way. I think the 61 inch stroke and the 74 inch cylinders would be a more square size yielding better rpms? Just thinking ....

                  Comment

                  • oneuptom
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 149

                    #24
                    Originally posted by flatman
                    If I remember that right thats and old racer trick. yields 68 inches, However maybe its the other way. I think the 61 inch stroke and the 74 inch cylinders would be a more square size yielding better rpms? Just thinking ....
                    The formula I've always used is bore radius squared x pi x stroke x 2. I think around 73.5 inches before the 0.020 overbore.

                    Comment

                    • confab
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2019
                      • 1337

                      #25
                      Even 41-47 Kuncks can now run a Timken .

                      That's awesome!

                      Comment

                      • JBinNC
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2018
                        • 2717

                        #26
                        Originally posted by oneuptom
                        Thanks bud!!

                        IIRC the magazine article I referenced was done by some racers, "Rawlin's Motor Maniacs" maybe?

                        After measuring my case insert it's almost certain they used the 1.7810 cup O.D. bearing also. I wouldn't even consider using the bigger bearing!

                        So what I have in mind is a 74 incher using 0.020 over EL jugs (thicker walls are better when it comes to iron staying round) and a 4.25" stroke, as much CR ratio as it takes, (much, much chamber work too) to produce 90 ft lbs at a relatively low rpm. Heaviest custom flywheels I can get my hands on... to mostly reduce the vibes

                        In order of importance to me

                        1) lowest vibration possible
                        2) reliability
                        3) decent power everywhere starting from right off idle
                        1)The expectation of 90 ft.lb. is not realistic.
                        2) As you increase stroke, vibration goes up. That is simple physics, and you cannot balance your way around it.
                        3) As compression goes up, vibration goes up. Again, physics.
                        4) The use of heavy flywheels makes for a nice street motor (and I prefer that for a heavy bike, personally).

                        For your #1 goal of lowest vibration, you would be better off with EL flywheels and 3 5/8 bore cylinders. That would give you 72 cu.in. Of course torque would be comparatively lower.

                        Also addressing the vibration, the lighter the pistons and rods, the lower the vibration. Again physics.

                        It will be of interest to see what mix-and-match recipe you come up with. I like Frankenmotors.

                        Jim

                        Comment

                        • oneuptom
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 149

                          #27
                          1)The expectation of 90 ft.lb. is not realistic
                          Indeed it isn't, not with a stock intake that's for sure, and not at low rpm with a little motor, but I have a plan.

                          Think of the long runner GM TPI intake and how it makes big low rpm torque. That kind of low rpm torque is ALWAYS tied to a long intake runner length!!! Harleys don't have any runner length, nothing you could consider tunable anyway

                          I'll be using a NOS S&S dual runner Pan intake manifold mated to a NOS Screamin' Eagle Holley dual throat. Also have the complete jet kit for it. Make that intake and exhaust talk properly with each other and they'll give you 90 ft lbs from 74 inches below 5,500 rpm. Goes without saying it'll also take some compression and the right cam

                          Comment

                          • JBinNC
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2018
                            • 2717

                            #28
                            Originally posted by oneuptom
                            Indeed it isn't, not with a stock intake that's for sure, and not at low rpm with a little motor, but I have a plan.

                            Think of the long runner GM TPI intake and how it makes big low rpm torque. That kind of low rpm torque is ALWAYS tied to a long intake runner length!!! Harleys don't have any runner length, nothing you could consider tunable anyway

                            I'll be using a NOS S&S dual runner Pan intake manifold mated to a NOS Screamin' Eagle Holley dual throat. Also have the complete jet kit for it. Make that intake and exhaust talk properly with each other and they'll give you 90 ft lbs from 74 inches below 5,500 rpm. Goes without saying it'll also take some compression and the right cam
                            Good luck with it, but that ain't gonna happen.

                            Jim

                            Comment

                            • oneuptom
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 149

                              #29
                              If a 383 TPI can make over 500 ft lbs, 1.3 lbs + per cube without even breaking a sweat using a small cam, why can't I build an engine making only 1.2 lbs per cube using basically the same architecture, blueprint?..

                              Comment

                              • confab
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2019
                                • 1337

                                #30
                                If a 383 TPI can make over 500 ft lbs, 1.3 lbs + per cube without even breaking a sweat using a small cam

                                You're talking about the SOSN build.. Right?

                                Comment

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