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I'd inspect the roofing cart in person to see if it's stable enough for a lathe move as the design has me questioning it. (Shingle packs are low and evenly spread their load.)
I'd consider better ways to control side movement than just straps, like wood crossbeams with blocks below deck height to stop the crossbeam from moving, and blocks above (can be screwed in onsite) to control the sideways lathe movement.
That cart looks like the front steers by a center pivot which is dangerous for high tippy loads. Picture what happens when you try for a 90-degree turn, then picture why I use casters.
A large engine hoist might manage but I'd be sure to use strong soft slings (not little tiedowns) and connect them so they cannot slide. The lathe headstock is the heavy end so you'll need to find the balance point before lifting.
Nofuckingway would I strap an engine hoist onto a dolly. You'll note everything I suggest is positively bolted to prevent slippage, and remember an engine hoist must have the forward casters BENEATH the load. The boom cannot be extended past them safely or the hoist will tip (with engines or anything else).
I would fab a simple small gantry as two A-frames with a removable (pinned in place) pipe or heavy box tubing crossbeam to pick the lathe off the stand, then remove the stand and lower the lathe onto blocking then bolt on transport outriggers.
You do you but everything you make for this will be worth it. One thing I learned is doing shit the hard way without making custom stuff is far more work than doing the SAME THING you're buying machine tools to do, which is make custom stuff to serve your needs.
Wood or steel can spread the wheeled load moving over the interior of a shop or home.
If you relinquish wanting to do this with limiting inadequate systems then make what will positively control your load and cannot fail you win.
A custom portable gantry fitted with pivoting scaffolding or other casters could perform the whole task of getting the lathe out of its structure but does not positively control tipping like outriggers when the load is on the trailer so cargo straps (at the correct points and not bending lead screw etc ) will be necessary. Positive control is safety. When it comes to loads I don't ask, I command. I've never damaged a machine tool moving or transporting it nor even come close because I'm thorough.
One slick way to lift heavy stuff if you can find it is scaffolding or industrial shelving because they break down for transport. Height sufficient for a manual puller (a real one not some shit hardware store comealong) or a winch will be necessary.
Pencil and paper is a good way to plan your attack.Last edited by farmall; 09-05-2021, 10:09 PM.Comment
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Here is a 60 year old dealership selling off everything . Check it out
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A fucking Super Vee! Lol... I wanted one of those so bad back in the late 80's, we didn't know what POS's they were back then. The owner (Steve Iorio) turned out to be a less than ethical businessman too. I would buy this one just for the fun and obscurity of it, but I'm sure that bid will go up considerably... Not to mention I'm 3 weeks into a knee replacement and don't have a full income coming in.
Either way, thanks for posting!Comment
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Dude stay away from taiwan/chicom crap it isn't worth it, you should be able to find nice toolroom quality stuff for the same price in Cinci. Go to the auction just to see what a bridgeport retails for and go from there, get some rigging ideas and pricing. I would hire a wrecker and bring a uhaul car hauler (the full trailer not dolly). A vertical mill is far more versatile than a lathe, your lathe can be lightweight and shitty like that enco but you need a heavy full size mill, not some JET or drill/mill combo POS. BTW you don't need any rigging for that ENCO, you could dead lift it onto a tailgate by yourself it's not that heavy.
Farm auctions are great and tooling is usually cheap, guys don't want the stuff from the shop they're there for equipment.
Running electric isn't hard, I piggybacked off my washer/dryer breaker, use ribbon and a vacuum to get started and fish through a rope, then pull wire. If you bury you should use rigid. It's easy to find single phase equipment on FB marketplace.Last edited by seaking; 09-08-2021, 8:22 AM.Comment
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Yeah.. I almost bought one like that at an auction yesterday. Two guys carried it out with ease. Took them 2 minutes and they were gone.
The one I bought is over a thousand pounds. But I like it much better.
You guys probably won't, because it's China stuff. But it should suit my needs here perfectly.
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I have a couple of bridgport mills in storage in so cal that I need to move up to nor cal
& my plan is same as yours, To pull the heads off to make the machines less Tippy.
And I have a set of track rollers (Skates) They work bitchen. They are about 8" in
length, made of heavy cast iron, & have heavy steel rollers that rotate (just like on a military
tank) & you use large leverage bars & 4x4 wood blocks (or steel blocks) To get the Rollers
under the machine, & you can angle them to what ever angle you need to go with the machine
by simply hitting them with a small sledge hammer. Three of them works best.
Back in the early '80's I used to go to many machine tool auctions, My father had a machine
tool rebuilding business, & we would restore machinery that we picked up at auctions, we
would fully strip them down, rebuild the gear boxes, rewire in some cases, new paint, re-plating,
etc. & resale them. I still have a bridgeport that I got at a huge auction 30+ yrs. ago, that had over 25 bridgeport mills. I hauled that machine from phoenix, Az. to Los Angeles on a 1 ton chevy flat bed. I spent allot of time tying
it down with chain cinchers, & heavy straps. A better way is to use a low bed trailer.
I sold my beloved Okuma LS (16X60) Lathe last year, & the guy that bought it, used
a dual axle low bed trailer that He rented. We used to buy some huge machines, some
as high as 12 feet, & weighing 8,000 lbs. we would hire professional riggers for the big stuffLast edited by Revelator; 09-09-2021, 9:24 AM.Comment
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You can find the weight of your prospective purchase pretty easily. Example post but there is plenty of Grizzly and Enco info. The Grizzly in question weighs similar to my older Taiwan belt drive lathe:
That much weight at benchtop height is deceptive in lathe form because lathes are narrow but their beds are dense. Figure about 900-1000 lbs without the cabinet. If you aren't saving a wooden cabinet you could cut engine hoist access holes or cut out the center section if it won't collapse. Whatever works. I used a recip saw to open the wooden cabinet base beneath my Taiwan lathe to remove the previous owners hardware (he didn't make it easy to remove for whatever reason).
Decide what your surface permits you to do. This example was on a nice pallet permitting use of an engine crane, but one still has to fuck with moving the pallet with that high load out of the shop, onto a trailer, off the trailer, and into the destination shop. On those ideal floors machinery skates would roll but are not attached positively to that tippy load and do not sit outboard of the base for additional stability. A locking castered base with adjuster feet (easy to make from bolts or industrial allthread, or buy feet from an industrial supply) can stay with the lathe for life if convenient rather than having to fight the lathe every time ya move it. I'm lazy as they get and don't do any extra work!
This simple assembly style (we make more parts as needed) does lathes, mills, surface grinders and anything else we bolt it to. Note the outriggers for this grinder move had the channel facing up. For a lathe it should normally face down since flat surfaces should face each other for firmest grip. In this case they do since the orange channel flat side faces the green. The casters unbolt for that reason and to move items over soft and rough areas. The allthread for lifting the machine is visible and picks up the downward-facing channel (angle is fine, I happen to have lots of channel) sections we bolted to the existing base holes. Allthread like screw jacks is smooth (grease is your friend and testing after cutting the allthread to ensure no burrs) and of course doesn't bleed down like bottle jacks can making it safe for transport. The allthread shown is cut long because our kit is intended to be universal. We precut the parts based on auction site photos so we'd only have to drill the final holes to match the machine base. Machinist center drill bits, punches, pilot drills, step drills (never bring a single bit of any size just in case since you'll be running what ya brung under time constraints) went with those in a pail.
Despite my detailed posts (most people omit the important little stuff) it's obviously easy to saw and drill common steel shapes once ya know what to shoot for, and it's cheaper than a more limited set of skates. Narrow gray dollies are for future in-shop use so I can roll my lathe inside the shipping container shop more conveniently than on the orange round bar shown next to them below my lathe base (welded from more of the same industrial racks). They will go inboard of the leveling feet (you can barely see one in the pic, mounted to the nasty-looking blue channel I won't paint until done, still needs a custom chip pan & other stuff). I'll drill the usual holes for allthread to lift the base upward beneath the gray outrigger dollies which locks the assembly firmly together. The earlier lift holes now house the feet. They''ll detach as fast as I can spin the hardware. (You can turn allthread into a large bolt by tacking a nut on one end if desire.) Such narrow dollies might help get the machine ya mentioned out of the bedroom and you can use the same four casters for short and long outriggers. While these are conventional casters (because they were handy and I collect them), scaffolding casters pop in and out of suitable tubing and would swap faster. I have a couple sets of those but haven't built anything with them yet since I've not scored pipe to fit.
Another way to go could be using box tubing with casters mounted to larger tubing like cheap precut Reese hitch sockets. Let your imagination be your guide. Nothing can be too stable or too strong but the work is easy.
WARNING; If you move anything with a table like the LeBlond tool and cutter grinder shown be sure the table is securely locked.Attached FilesLast edited by farmall; 09-09-2021, 9:21 PM.Comment
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If you rotate the heads downward before jacking that's an old way to lower the CG with no winching or wire disconnection.I have a couple of bridgport mills in storage in so cal that I need to move up to nor cal
& my plan is same as yours, To pull the heads off to make the machines less Tippy.
This guy did it and was able to use a pallet jack with his hydraulic drop deck rental trailer (drop deck means fewer hazards than using a conventional trailer, you can rent them at many locations). Of course he had ideal floors to work on:
I had to pull my ram to get my round ram BP out of the sellers building (we used his little Harbor Freight winch off a joist) but the others I moved didn't require it. This is my bros mill we moved out of a garage and up his trailer ramp in complete safety. Angle underneath clears pallet jack. He's short so he removed it (easy by blocking and jacking just like the install) after final positioning. Bonus, I got to keep the angle for my next move since I leave it under my knee mills (I'm 6'2").
This way doesn't tip for obvious reasons and unlike gravity and skates the mill can't fall off since it's bolted in place. Remember to lower knee mill tables onto a wooden block to take the load off the screw before transport. We used a the hunk of metal shown lying loose which works too. While we didn't need to for our local trip one reason trailers have wooden decks is to nail or screw wheel chocks to the decking. Not a bad idea for any heavy load so I'm mentioning it because I'm a securement fanatic.
This is what happens to people who aren't as thorough. Good on him for posting it though as it gets the point across. My shit is always bolted the fuck down and positively controlled. I never lift anything higher than the minimum because that's a shorter falling distance and that includes steadily shimming or otherwise supporting machines as I jack. His was on a nice cart...until it wasn't.
Attached FilesLast edited by farmall; 09-10-2021, 12:51 AM.Comment
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Having to show up and physically remove this stuff by yourself (No riggers at estate auctions) and do it on a timeline, seems to knock down a bunch of the competition, I noticed.
I think only about three people bid on the one I got.
The industrial auctions have a lot of interest.
Nobody wanted to take this one apart and pack it out of a bedroom.Attached FilesComment
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Right on, you've bought one!Comment
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Good deal, that should be nice to have! Good luck and stay safe getting it out of there.Comment
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Thanks, both.
Oh yeah.. We got one. I really, really want my own little, Dollar Store version, of a Harley Machine Shop.
lol. Getting it was the most fun part.
Here's the listing and how it was set up:
It didn't go exactly as planned. I win the auction and I'm South of Cincy, in Indiana.. And they email me in the afternoon and say: "Okay! You win! YAAAAY! Loadout is in half hour time slots from 10:00 to 2:00, TOMORROW.. "
It's like a 5 plus hour drive from here. lol. I was going to rent big SUV, but the Mrs. thought it would fit into her Jeep. OMZ.. What a disaster that was. We packed up some tools and a two wheel cart. Stopped at Harbor Freight and lined the Jeep with about a million shipping blankets. Buy a bucket to drain lube into and for all the hardware we're gonna be ripping loose. We call ahead and get a room and drive up. Get there about midnight.
Show up at ten and tell them there's no way. It won't even fit through the door, no matter what you do with it. Super Man couldn't get this out of that room in one piece, and since THEY SAID in the listing that it may have to be taken apart, I should get more time. They agreed and gave me till 2:00, when everybody is leaving and locking the property up.
Then it is hard wired into the wall. The power is on. I'm scared to say anything to anyone, because I'm scared they'll shut me down and demand an electrician unhook it. So, I very quietly unhooked it hot. Left the disconnect box there for safety. (Didn't want to leave them with a bunch of sparking wires and a potential fire, because I'm such a nice guy. lol.)
The guy I beat at the auction showed up to get the small lathe he won.. He glared at me. lol.
There's NO WAY him and his buddy could have removed the big one, anyway. They were lucky to carry the little Enco they won out to the truck.
Then I can't lower the head to the ground to put it on the cart. It's just too much. I thought I could but, I'm gonna have to turn in my man card after this. Because there was no fucking way.
Then, this huge bull looking dude comes in after a tin sign he bought and asked if I needed help. Then some giant weightlifter looking guy shows up for his stuff and offered to help. And the three of us lowered it and it was all we could do. Holy fuck, is that thing heavy. I tried to pay them, but they were just happy to help someone. Everyone was super nice. (Except the guy I beat.. lol)
We loaded it up and headed home with 30 minutes to spare.
I told the Mrs. if we crash or get rear ended? We're gonna fucking die. We laughed about it and then Columbus traffic made it seem a lot less funny. So no more of that.
It was a fucking blast. I had more fun getting it than I will using it.
I think we did a great job with it. Particularly for noobies in a cramped back bedroom and the whole mess that entailed.Attached FilesLast edited by confab; 09-10-2021, 12:09 PM.Comment
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It really doesn't look like it had a lot of use? I think the guy was making guns with it. His entire house was converted into a machine shop. EVERY ROOM. it was wild.
There is melted solder dripped all over it, like he was soldering something in the lathe, but not the lathe itself? There were gunsmithing books everywhere.. And gun parts.
There were two lathes and this was the larger of the two. This one and an Enco mini lathe. Which did look like it was used a lot.
It has a chuck in the normal place. And another chuck in a special adapter he made on the rear of the headstock. And yet another in a livecenter arrangement in the tailstock.
I've never seen a setup like that.. But I'm not a machinist, so maybe that isn't surprising? But I've looked and read and watched a lot of video and never seen anyone do anything like that.Last edited by confab; 09-10-2021, 12:56 PM.Comment
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He might've been casting his own parts, I bought a lot of pattern maker type tools from a WWII vet that passed. The larger one might be for boring--save all that tooling you might be halfway to boring fork sliders or something.Comment
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