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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    Do it , a good partner knows when to encourage. If you don't? you end up my age wishing you had. You seem to have a lot of energy, channel it.
    ^^^^ This times 10 ^^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    Do it , a good partner knows when to encourage.
    She's very good at this. And she loves bikes. We're mocking up the drive line for her 42 WLA bobber right now, actually. (It has taken a back seat to legitimate work for the moment, though.)

    I can just imagine all these guys in the world wonder how they can get their wives into bikes? I don't think I could get mine to stop if I wanted to. lol.

    She doesn't want new ones, either. She likes neat old bikes.

    She seems stoked on the idea of a little Harley machine shop. We've even talked a little about retailing some 45 parts.

    So, I'm sure we'll end up with some machines if I can dig up deals on them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbard View Post
    In my day the only way was to start sweepin floors in a machine shop and make the boss teach you shit. If you stayed with it you would soon learn. You're lucky to have the world at your fingertips to watch and learn. You can do in 10 minutes what used to take years.
    Yeah.. It's pretty awesome.

    Growing up was like you say - It took years to get experience. Your own shop at home with a lathe and a mill? LAWL.. Forget about it.

    Even if you had them, you couldn't use them effectively without years of experience. The books were absolutely incoherent. If you wanted a particular machine? Good luck with the classifieds or the paltry number of local auctions. Then you had to move it all.

    Even if you overcame all of that? Your house could easily have 60 whopping amps of service back then. None of it in your garage, either. You have to run that shit.

    You're right. I remember what it was like.

    A whole different word now! So much easier.

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    Another place to keep an eye out for are salvage dealers, company that buys manufacturing inventory for instance. I bought my 9" South Bend lathe from such a company and they had a Bridgeport for good money that I passed on and wish I hadn't. There aren't many of those guys around and they don't advertise well, at least not in my neck of the woods, but sometimes you can find some jewels.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmaineron View Post
    Another place to keep an eye out for are salvage dealers, company that buys manufacturing inventory for instance. I bought my 9" South Bend lathe from such a company and they had a Bridgeport for good money that I passed on and wish I hadn't. There aren't many of those guys around and they don't advertise well, at least not in my neck of the woods, but sometimes you can find some jewels.
    I got my Bridgeport from a machinery dealer in Richmond. I payed a premium price, but got a good machine. Brought it home (6 hours) in my friend's half ton pickup. We were low riders that day, for sure.

    Jim

  6. #26
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    IME there is no need unless moving REALLY large items to bother with personal insurance if you don't mind eating the cost of dropping your new toy (which you do not do because you do not do stupid shit) and the point of rigging it yourself properly is not only not to do that but get complete control of the machine all the way home and afterwards. This is not difficult. I've moved and helped move many machine tools and there are plenty of photographic examples (google "moving a Bridgeport" for ideas) of how to do it safely.

    Hunt steel in advance from beam to box to pipe. That can't go wrong since your're building a metalworking shop in the first place. Know caster load ranges and know you can use any number of casters. Scaffolding casters slide into pipe so you can use them on multiple dollies. There is no downside to owning steel, hardware and casters because it's an adult erector set. Since anyone wanting a machine shop should already have a welder (stick is fine) you can fab stuff like toe jack tops for hydraulic jacks. You can hunt useful jacks (you can never have too many of those either) like the classic OTC style forklift jack which is excellent for raising the stuff confab mentions. You can accumulate wooden blocks and steel shims. Even if you bought most of the stuff new it would pay off vs. paying a rigger for their brief intervention.

    But, I don't have a fork lift, anyway? I don't have any big, motorized stuff? I guess I could still do damage and be liable, but everything I want is relatively small. I think I could take most of it apart and carry it?
    Forklifts are overrated and cannot go many places machine tools are to be found, like across a soft dirt back yard into a low door height garage with no room for a forklift mast to move a tool that's facing the wrong way or buried. Fuck all that. The manual way done right is quick, stable, safe (I'm a fanatic about not squashing me), cheap and has zero disadvantages. It's modular, easy to reconfigure with cordless or corded tools (6" angle grinder with zip disk, drills, multibit, a few twist drill bits) on the spot.

    While you can do stuff like remove the ram on a knee mill if you have to as I did once unless that mill is truly trapped it's easier to flip the head and leave the ram attached. Thinking is free and when your solution prohibits tipping your solution is safe.

    Move very slowly and shim under anything you lift. Falling is a hazard because of how FAR a thing falls. If it can only fall a quarter inch that's far safer than letting shit wobble in space. Own a pallet jack since every shop needs one but only use those for small objects at very short distance on perfect concrete or steel. Pallet jacks should not be primary movers since steel slides on steel and their "trike" design tips easily.

    The example Enco lathe (an old Enco makes my professional machinistbro money every day as that size is so convenient) is easy but how to do outriggers to prohibit tipping depends on the base.

    Pic shows one of my outriggers. The large casters are desirable for less rolling resistance. This one has welded plates on the ends but the casters bolt onto them for easy removal and of course all threads get anti-seize. Welding the casters to the channel would be too limiting. The two center holes match the last machine we moved. For heavier tools than confab is contemplating I'd add a center caster or two to limit bending but for a typical knee mill etc that's ample. The holes can be used with heavy allthread to lift a machine tool from the ground after bolting other steel beneath (channel permits reaching inwards to hold nuts) or you can use blocks etc to lift the tool to slide the outrigger WITHOUT WHEELS beneath the tool. No wheels means ya only need lift the tool just enough to get the channel etc and a wrench beneath to hold the nut for your (industrial quality, thick as you can fit) allthread (most of which you wisely precut and chamfered and tried the nuts on beforehand). Lift machine, slide channel etc beneath, shim beneath channel so it cannot possibly crush fingers, bolt on and repeat.

    After you bolt the outrigger to the tool base then you install the second at the opposite end of the tool. Now your tool is stable and you can jack the outriggers to bolt on the casters or toss steel pipe to skid on that. You can toss old mobile home frame (collect that shit!) underneath to move over gravel or earth. Doing all this is much less complex than reading it sounds. Have the metal and casters at hand to picture various combos them fab what you like. I always drill machine attachment holes oversize and use large flat washers to speed alignment.

    Width should suit your trailer of course. Pushing is awkward and humans are weak. I prefer to pull with manual winches most of the time because I can put them anywhere in combination. Wire rope and clamps are cheap making extending a cable very low effort and a zip disc lets ya cut lengths in the field. Anti-seize the rope clamp threads for reuse. All the little details I list are what make this shit easy but most people don't mention them and expect other mechanics to figure it out but intuition ain't 100-percent reliable.
    Never put body parts underneath heavy shit that's not safely blocked.
    Never hurry because slow is fast.
    Have plenty of snacks and water with you so no need for lunch breaks.
    THINK. Obstacles disappear when you think.
    Bring all the gear your towing vehicle permits.
    Have duplicate drill bits.
    If you need something like a long reach wrench cut one up and extend it. Special tools quickly made are speed operations.
    Understand the basic geometry of what you are doing.
    Bring intelligent help. Two people is sufficient for nearly any tool you can carry on a car trailer i.e. several thousand lbs
    You probably jack heavier trucks all the time for maintenance.
    Have more cargo straps than you think you'll need.
    If your trailer doesn't have plenty of anchor points that fit your straps buy a bunch of D-rings or heavy U-bolts and weld 'em on. More is better than fewer.
    Own at least one seriously long well made pinch or pry bar. Know how to use it (that is not always intuitive!)
    Lever dollies are easy to make. I don't have one at moment since I've so many other tools but will eventually add one. No need for bearings either since a piece of round solid bar (old axle etc) will do and is a common style.

    Save and print this since memory is fallible. Add your own inputs as ya go. Take lots of reference pics. The work is easy with the right gear which you will use for life and the right gear is plenty affordable and trivial compare to paying riggers who get paid by the hour. Once your new toy is home you can halt and take all the breaks you want but small lathe and mill moves are easy.

    Where space is an issue it's common to place items like mills in a corner of a room and if there isn't quite enough space to fully traverse the table you can fab a rolling base with jack screws. The mill of course needs to be level but unlike a lathe the rigidity of the typical knee mill is designed into the base. Lathes OTOH (but small lathes have little risk) can be twisted by improper leveling but that's often and easily solved with a stout base. Oil patch and other mobile machine shops are worth study.

    I never met anyone who cried themselves to sleep over having their own home shop. The money isn't really much over time but the capability and convenience of having the gear at hand is a game changer. Downtime is waste and the more gear ya have the more productive (not just fun) uses it will offer you. I should have built a machine shop thirty years ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails outrigger.jpg  
    Last edited by farmall; 09-05-2021 at 12:39 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    and there are plenty of photographic examples (google "moving a Bridgeport" for ideas) of how to do it safely.
    Odd you would say that.. I was just reviewing this thread I saw in google images:

    http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49394

    Lever dollies, Scaffolding Casters and forklift jacks are things I never heard of before. I can easily see where they would be ideal for this sort of thing.

    The example Enco lathe (an old Enco makes my professional machinistbro money every day as that size is so convenient) is easy but how to do outriggers to prohibit tipping depends on the base.
    It is a good size. Someone who knows what they're doing could probably make money with it. I expect this to be a money losing endeavor, though. When I say Harley Machine Shop, I really mean "Harley Machine Shop" in quotes. Because I have no business destroying someone else's antique castings and parts.

    It's exclusively for me and the Mrs, and for destroying our antique castings and parts. So, I really want to do this as cheaply as possible because it's just going to be a big money pit.

    But that size lathe is pretty much what I'm looking for. With all of its threading features and low weight and price.

    Everything else you wrote is great advice and I appreciate it.. But I guess the biggest thing I wonder about is simple shit - Like, how do you lower the lathe from the stand? Engine hoist?

    Those stands don't look like they would take a lot of abuse and dragging with a winch before they sprung or failed outright.

    But, it may not matter. I may have a line on one someone had set up in a bedroom (LOL! SERIOUS!!) and it would either take half a dozen Samoans or disassembly to remove.
    Last edited by confab; 09-05-2021 at 4:05 PM.

  8. #28

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    When I moved my Bridgeport (we removed the head before transport to cut down height and lower the C/G), I called a wrecker, and with the eye bolt in the top of the ram, he lifted it off the truck and set it on my concrete floor as far in as he could reach. $60. Then I scooted it into position, about 25 feet, with a gandy bar. I don't to this day know where I got the bar. Probably spoils of an auction (buy everything on the floor of this room, one money). The Bridgeports have a threaded hole in the top of the ram for the eye bolt, it's a standard feature.

    Jim

  9. #29
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    The lathe plan (Excepting the one in the bedroom, which poses unique challenges) is probably going to be something like this:

    1) My railroad bar as a lever dolly. Roll the engine hoist in on a rented equipment dolly. Assemble it. Raise the lathe up high enough to block up and slide the engine hoist under. (May employ the floor jack also?)

    2) Separate lathe from the stand.

    3) Lower lathe onto one of these and strap it down.

    https://artsrental.com/products/roofing-cart-30-x-60

    3.5) Repeat process with the stand if it is necessary, using a second rented shingle cart. Depending on the stand.

    4) Drag the entire mess onto my trailer with the electric winch.

    5) Drive home.

    Sound like it would work? The CG stays low that way. Seems safe?

    Once it is home? I'm golden. The shop has a 10K and a 12K lift to unload anything I want. Getting it on a trailer is the problem.

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    https://worcester.craigslist.org/tls...355051736.html

    I knew I saw this looking at motorcycle parts on my local cl

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsoftail View Post
    https://worcester.craigslist.org/tls...355051736.html

    I knew I saw this looking at motorcycle parts on my local cl
    The tooling may be worth more than the asking price.

    Jim

  12. #32
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    I'd inspect the roofing cart in person to see if it's stable enough for a lathe move as the design has me questioning it. (Shingle packs are low and evenly spread their load.)

    I'd consider better ways to control side movement than just straps, like wood crossbeams with blocks below deck height to stop the crossbeam from moving, and blocks above (can be screwed in onsite) to control the sideways lathe movement.

    That cart looks like the front steers by a center pivot which is dangerous for high tippy loads. Picture what happens when you try for a 90-degree turn, then picture why I use casters.

    A large engine hoist might manage but I'd be sure to use strong soft slings (not little tiedowns) and connect them so they cannot slide. The lathe headstock is the heavy end so you'll need to find the balance point before lifting.

    Nofuckingway would I strap an engine hoist onto a dolly.
    You'll note everything I suggest is positively bolted to prevent slippage, and remember an engine hoist must have the forward casters BENEATH the load. The boom cannot be extended past them safely or the hoist will tip (with engines or anything else).

    I would fab a simple small gantry as two A-frames with a removable (pinned in place) pipe or heavy box tubing crossbeam to pick the lathe off the stand, then remove the stand and lower the lathe onto blocking then bolt on transport outriggers.

    You do you but everything you make for this will be worth it. One thing I learned is doing shit the hard way without making custom stuff is far more work than doing the SAME THING you're buying machine tools to do, which is make custom stuff to serve your needs.

    Wood or steel can spread the wheeled load moving over the interior of a shop or home.

    If you relinquish wanting to do this with limiting inadequate systems then make what will positively control your load and cannot fail you win.

    A custom portable gantry fitted with pivoting scaffolding or other casters could perform the whole task of getting the lathe out of its structure but does not positively control tipping like outriggers when the load is on the trailer so cargo straps (at the correct points and not bending lead screw etc ) will be necessary. Positive control is safety. When it comes to loads I don't ask, I command. I've never damaged a machine tool moving or transporting it nor even come close because I'm thorough.

    One slick way to lift heavy stuff if you can find it is scaffolding or industrial shelving because they break down for transport. Height sufficient for a manual puller (a real one not some shit hardware store comealong) or a winch will be necessary.

    Pencil and paper is a good way to plan your attack.
    Last edited by farmall; 09-05-2021 at 10:09 PM.

  13. #33
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    Here is a 60 year old dealership selling off everything . Check it out

    https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/m...375395591.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomBuggy View Post
    Here is a 60 year old dealership selling off everything . Check it out

    https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/m...375395591.html
    A fucking Super Vee! Lol... I wanted one of those so bad back in the late 80's, we didn't know what POS's they were back then. The owner (Steve Iorio) turned out to be a less than ethical businessman too. I would buy this one just for the fun and obscurity of it, but I'm sure that bid will go up considerably... Not to mention I'm 3 weeks into a knee replacement and don't have a full income coming in.
    Either way, thanks for posting!

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    Dude stay away from taiwan/chicom crap it isn't worth it, you should be able to find nice toolroom quality stuff for the same price in Cinci. Go to the auction just to see what a bridgeport retails for and go from there, get some rigging ideas and pricing. I would hire a wrecker and bring a uhaul car hauler (the full trailer not dolly). A vertical mill is far more versatile than a lathe, your lathe can be lightweight and shitty like that enco but you need a heavy full size mill, not some JET or drill/mill combo POS. BTW you don't need any rigging for that ENCO, you could dead lift it onto a tailgate by yourself it's not that heavy.
    Farm auctions are great and tooling is usually cheap, guys don't want the stuff from the shop they're there for equipment.
    Running electric isn't hard, I piggybacked off my washer/dryer breaker, use ribbon and a vacuum to get started and fish through a rope, then pull wire. If you bury you should use rigid. It's easy to find single phase equipment on FB marketplace.
    Last edited by seaking; 09-08-2021 at 8:22 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaking View Post
    ... your lathe can be lightweight and shitty like that enco ... BTW you don't need any rigging for that ENCO, you could dead lift it onto a tailgate by yourself it's not that heavy.
    Yeah.. I almost bought one like that at an auction yesterday. Two guys carried it out with ease. Took them 2 minutes and they were gone.

    https://www.proxibid.com/Estate-Pers...ation/63518811

    The one I bought is over a thousand pounds. But I like it much better.

    You guys probably won't, because it's China stuff. But it should suit my needs here perfectly.

    https://www.proxibid.com/Estate-Pers...ation/63518824

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    When I moved my Bridgeport (we removed the head before transport to cut down height and lower the C/G), I called a wrecker, and with the eye bolt in the top of the ram, he lifted it off the truck and set it on my concrete floor as far in as he could reach. $60. Then I scooted it into position, about 25 feet, with a gandy bar. I don't to this day know where I got the bar. Probably spoils of an auction (buy everything on the floor of this room, one money). The Bridgeports have a threaded hole in the top of the ram for the eye bolt, it's a standard feature.

    Jim
    I have a couple of bridgport mills in storage in so cal that I need to move up to nor cal
    & my plan is same as yours, To pull the heads off to make the machines less Tippy.
    And I have a set of track rollers (Skates) They work bitchen. They are about 8" in
    length, made of heavy cast iron, & have heavy steel rollers that rotate (just like on a military
    tank) & you use large leverage bars & 4x4 wood blocks (or steel blocks) To get the Rollers
    under the machine, & you can angle them to what ever angle you need to go with the machine
    by simply hitting them with a small sledge hammer. Three of them works best.

    Back in the early '80's I used to go to many machine tool auctions, My father had a machine
    tool rebuilding business, & we would restore machinery that we picked up at auctions, we
    would fully strip them down, rebuild the gear boxes, rewire in some cases, new paint, re-plating,
    etc. & resale them. I still have a bridgeport that I got at a huge auction 30+ yrs. ago, that had over 25 bridgeport mills. I hauled that machine from phoenix, Az. to Los Angeles on a 1 ton chevy flat bed. I spent allot of time tying
    it down with chain cinchers, & heavy straps. A better way is to use a low bed trailer.
    I sold my beloved Okuma LS (16X60) Lathe last year, & the guy that bought it, used
    a dual axle low bed trailer that He rented. We used to buy some huge machines, some
    as high as 12 feet, & weighing 8,000 lbs. we would hire professional riggers for the big stuffClick image for larger version. 

Name:	machinery track rollers.jpg 
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    Last edited by Revelator; 09-09-2021 at 9:24 AM.

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    You can find the weight of your prospective purchase pretty easily. Example post but there is plenty of Grizzly and Enco info. The Grizzly in question weighs similar to my older Taiwan belt drive lathe:

    That much weight at benchtop height is deceptive in lathe form because lathes are narrow but their beds are dense. Figure about 900-1000 lbs without the cabinet. If you aren't saving a wooden cabinet you could cut engine hoist access holes or cut out the center section if it won't collapse. Whatever works. I used a recip saw to open the wooden cabinet base beneath my Taiwan lathe to remove the previous owners hardware (he didn't make it easy to remove for whatever reason).

    Decide what your surface permits you to do. This example was on a nice pallet permitting use of an engine crane, but one still has to fuck with moving the pallet with that high load out of the shop, onto a trailer, off the trailer, and into the destination shop. On those ideal floors machinery skates would roll but are not attached positively to that tippy load and do not sit outboard of the base for additional stability. A locking castered base with adjuster feet (easy to make from bolts or industrial allthread, or buy feet from an industrial supply) can stay with the lathe for life if convenient rather than having to fight the lathe every time ya move it. I'm lazy as they get and don't do any extra work!

    https://www.modelenginemaker.com/ind...?topic=1673.45

    This simple assembly style (we make more parts as needed) does lathes, mills, surface grinders and anything else we bolt it to. Note the outriggers for this grinder move had the channel facing up. For a lathe it should normally face down since flat surfaces should face each other for firmest grip. In this case they do since the orange channel flat side faces the green. The casters unbolt for that reason and to move items over soft and rough areas. The allthread for lifting the machine is visible and picks up the downward-facing channel (angle is fine, I happen to have lots of channel) sections we bolted to the existing base holes. Allthread like screw jacks is smooth (grease is your friend and testing after cutting the allthread to ensure no burrs) and of course doesn't bleed down like bottle jacks can making it safe for transport. The allthread shown is cut long because our kit is intended to be universal. We precut the parts based on auction site photos so we'd only have to drill the final holes to match the machine base. Machinist center drill bits, punches, pilot drills, step drills (never bring a single bit of any size just in case since you'll be running what ya brung under time constraints) went with those in a pail.

    Despite my detailed posts (most people omit the important little stuff) it's obviously easy to saw and drill common steel shapes once ya know what to shoot for, and it's cheaper than a more limited set of skates. Narrow gray dollies are for future in-shop use so I can roll my lathe inside the shipping container shop more conveniently than on the orange round bar shown next to them below my lathe base (welded from more of the same industrial racks). They will go inboard of the leveling feet (you can barely see one in the pic, mounted to the nasty-looking blue channel I won't paint until done, still needs a custom chip pan & other stuff). I'll drill the usual holes for allthread to lift the base upward beneath the gray outrigger dollies which locks the assembly firmly together. The earlier lift holes now house the feet. They''ll detach as fast as I can spin the hardware. (You can turn allthread into a large bolt by tacking a nut on one end if desire.) Such narrow dollies might help get the machine ya mentioned out of the bedroom and you can use the same four casters for short and long outriggers. While these are conventional casters (because they were handy and I collect them), scaffolding casters pop in and out of suitable tubing and would swap faster. I have a couple sets of those but haven't built anything with them yet since I've not scored pipe to fit.

    Another way to go could be using box tubing with casters mounted to larger tubing like cheap precut Reese hitch sockets. Let your imagination be your guide. Nothing can be too stable or too strong but the work is easy.

    WARNING; If you move anything with a table like the LeBlond tool and cutter grinder shown be sure the table is securely locked.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails grinder move.jpg   Narrow-dollies2.jpg  
    Last edited by farmall; 09-09-2021 at 9:21 PM.

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    I have a couple of bridgport mills in storage in so cal that I need to move up to nor cal
    & my plan is same as yours, To pull the heads off to make the machines less Tippy.
    If you rotate the heads downward before jacking that's an old way to lower the CG with no winching or wire disconnection.

    This guy did it and was able to use a pallet jack with his hydraulic drop deck rental trailer (drop deck means fewer hazards than using a conventional trailer, you can rent them at many locations). Of course he had ideal floors to work on:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSdwwQZzz0A

    I had to pull my ram to get my round ram BP out of the sellers building (we used his little Harbor Freight winch off a joist) but the others I moved didn't require it. This is my bros mill we moved out of a garage and up his trailer ramp in complete safety. Angle underneath clears pallet jack. He's short so he removed it (easy by blocking and jacking just like the install) after final positioning. Bonus, I got to keep the angle for my next move since I leave it under my knee mills (I'm 6'2").

    This way doesn't tip for obvious reasons and unlike gravity and skates the mill can't fall off since it's bolted in place. Remember to lower knee mill tables onto a wooden block to take the load off the screw before transport. We used a the hunk of metal shown lying loose which works too. While we didn't need to for our local trip one reason trailers have wooden decks is to nail or screw wheel chocks to the decking. Not a bad idea for any heavy load so I'm mentioning it because I'm a securement fanatic.

    This is what happens to people who aren't as thorough. Good on him for posting it though as it gets the point across. My shit is always bolted the fuck down and positively controlled. I never lift anything higher than the minimum because that's a shorter falling distance and that includes steadily shimming or otherwise supporting machines as I jack. His was on a nice cart...until it wasn't.

    http://www.truetex.com/moveclausing.htm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bridgeport move rear.jpg   bp side on trailer.jpg  
    Last edited by farmall; 09-10-2021 at 12:51 AM.

  20. #40
    Senior Member

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    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,026

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    Having to show up and physically remove this stuff by yourself (No riggers at estate auctions) and do it on a timeline, seems to knock down a bunch of the competition, I noticed.

    I think only about three people bid on the one I got.

    The industrial auctions have a lot of interest.

    Nobody wanted to take this one apart and pack it out of a bedroom.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210910_120844.jpg  

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