Question about rod bearings

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  • Allen9X
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2021
    • 11

    #16
    Originally posted by Dragstews
    When you buy a set of rods from S&S Cycle they will come with steel cage bearings in em ...
    We might need a set of rods soon. We'll check them out.

    Comment

    • Dragstews
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2010
      • 13740

      #17
      Originally posted by Allen9X

      We might need a set of rods soon.
      You may like a set of Carrillo knockoff's, Forged 4340 steel H-Beam rods. (Imported by Kenny Finish, Chengdu, Sichuan, Mainland China)



      I have built many motors using these rods, no problems from em ...

      Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

      Comment

      • Allen9X
        Junior Member
        • Sep 2021
        • 11

        #18
        Originally posted by Dragstews
        You may like a set of Carrillo knockoff's, Forged 4340 steel H-Beam rods. (Imported by Kenny Finish, Chengdu, Sichuan, Mainland China)



        I have built many motors using these rods, no problems from em ...

        That looks great! We'll just finish installing the installation of the headache rack, tonneau covers, and front bumper on the truck this week before we can start working on the bike. Gonna check them out.

        Comment

        • flatman
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2017
          • 550

          #19
          bmikarts has 80 inch shovel rods with 2 hole crank pin with nuts for 60 bucks. They bought out alot of the Dixie stuff. Dont know if the rods are Dixie or other and of what quality? Also would not the bigger evo rollers spin slower than the smaller ones? I am not 100 percent they really roll anyway. I had a scout once my buddy built that the cages faced each other between the male and female rod with long rollers with short ones on the outside. So in theory each rod should have had independent rollers from each other. Seemed to run fine with no issues.

          Comment

          • JBinNC
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2018
            • 2697

            #20
            Originally posted by flatman
            bmikarts has 80 inch shovel rods with 2 hole crank pin with nuts for 60 bucks. They bought out alot of the Dixie stuff. Dont know if the rods are Dixie or other and of what quality? Also would not the bigger evo rollers spin slower than the smaller ones? I am not 100 percent they really roll anyway. I had a scout once my buddy built that the cages faced each other between the male and female rod with long rollers with short ones on the outside. So in theory each rod should have had independent rollers from each other. Seemed to run fine with no issues.
            Yes, the front and rear rods have roller sets that are independent of each other; that must be, because each rod is accelerating at a different rate than its mate. The big ends are even moving in opposite directions relative to each other at some points of the stroke.

            Jim

            Comment

            • flatman
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2017
              • 550

              #21
              Thats what I was told, that it would never work. God and fools? My buddy actually built motors for a living, he did not want to do it. It was my choice to try it, I was younger and dumber then. Eventually sold the scout to a guy that raced it at sturgis a long time ago. It was a strong runner. IMHO I think they skid alot, but also roll. While I would not recommend it, seemed to work. We also tried with hard shell bearings in the rods, back to back, that one part was in the female and the other half in the male rod. That chief is still running around and gets ridden alot. Maybe just luck, because as you say and I totally agree with you, it really should not work at all. Also has anybody tried or is there enough room or benefit to run the roller like bearing set up, two stroke style, in the small end?
              Last edited by flatman; 09-08-2021, 9:58 AM.

              Comment

              • DustyDave
                Super Moderator
                • Oct 2012
                • 2003

                #22
                Facing the retainers toward each other on the male rod will work and has come into fashion occasionally. The idea being that the male races are closer together than the female rod so have more side to side movement at the small end than the female. So the thought was that the longer rollers with out the gap in the center would stabilize the male rod to match the female. I don't see any real advantage certainly when you figure the trouble sourcing them but they run fine. If the wrist pins are parallel to the cylinder base I have never found any evidence of much side movement. I suspect you are remembering wrong.
                Dusty
                Driving that train, high on cocaine
                Casey Jones you better, watch your speed
                Trouble ahead, trouble behind
                And you know that notion just crossed my mind​

                Comment

                • JBinNC
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2018
                  • 2697

                  #23
                  Originally posted by DustyDave
                  Facing the retainers toward each other on the male rod will work and has come into fashion occasionally. The idea being that the male races are closer together than the female rod so have more side to side movement at the small end than the female. So the thought was that the longer rollers with out the gap in the center would stabilize the male rod to match the female. I don't see any real advantage certainly when you figure the trouble sourcing them but they run fine. If the wrist pins are parallel to the cylinder base I have never found any evidence of much side movement. I suspect you are remembering wrong.
                  Dusty
                  Yes, on all the motors prior to '73, all the big end cages were the same, so you had one in each race of the rear rod and two facing each other in the front rod, with wider rollers as you say. That design goes back to the earliest twins in 1916 (?) maybe. It does work fine and offers the highest roller count and widest rollers of all the current big twin set-ups. (I do think the one piece cages are more stable at high rpm, but that is my opinion only, and I don't have anything to back it up.)

                  Jim

                  Comment

                  • DustyDave
                    Super Moderator
                    • Oct 2012
                    • 2003

                    #24
                    Originally posted by JBinNC
                    Yes, on all the motors prior to '73, all the big end cages were the same, so you had one in each race of the rear rod and two facing each other in the front rod, with wider rollers as you say. That design goes back to the earliest twins in 1916 (?) maybe. It does work fine and offers the highest roller count and widest rollers of all the current big twin set-ups. (I do think the one piece cages are more stable at high rpm, but that is my opinion only, and I don't have anything to back it up.)

                    Jim
                    I think he was talking about an Indian.
                    Dusty
                    Driving that train, high on cocaine
                    Casey Jones you better, watch your speed
                    Trouble ahead, trouble behind
                    And you know that notion just crossed my mind​

                    Comment

                    • JBinNC
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2018
                      • 2697

                      #25
                      Originally posted by DustyDave
                      I think he was talking about an Indian.
                      Dusty
                      Yes, but the discussion started out about H-D, and in any event, I think the Indian and old H-D bearing arrangements were essentially the same.

                      Jim

                      Comment

                      • DustyDave
                        Super Moderator
                        • Oct 2012
                        • 2003

                        #26
                        Originally posted by JBinNC
                        Yes, but the discussion started out about H-D, and in any event, I think the Indian and old H-D bearing arrangements were essentially the same.

                        Jim
                        Obviously not or I wouldn't have written what I did! Indian never went to the long rollers in the malido rod. The occasional builder would try them.
                        Dusty
                        Driving that train, high on cocaine
                        Casey Jones you better, watch your speed
                        Trouble ahead, trouble behind
                        And you know that notion just crossed my mind​

                        Comment

                        • flatman
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2017
                          • 550

                          #27
                          Just to clarify, the motor was built with 2 sets of long rollers in the bottom end. It had half of the long roller in the female rod and the other half in the male rod. Same with the hard shell bearings. Half in the female and half in the male. True, should not work, but did. The question about the small end having the wrist pin on rollers was from 2 stroke motors I have seen. Was thinking about friction not if the pin was parallel. Some of that stuff turns really high RPM so was wondering if it was possible on a HD or if any benefit. Sorry did not mean to highjack the thread

                          Comment

                          • JBinNC
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2018
                            • 2697

                            #28
                            Originally posted by DustyDave
                            Obviously not or I wouldn't have written what I did! Indian never went to the long rollers in the malido rod. The occasional builder would try them.
                            Dusty
                            10-4

                            Jim

                            Comment

                            • JBinNC
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2018
                              • 2697

                              #29
                              Originally posted by flatman
                              Just to clarify, the motor was built with 2 sets of long rollers in the bottom end. It had half of the long roller in the female rod and the other half in the male rod. Same with the hard shell bearings. Half in the female and half in the male. True, should not work, but did. The question about the small end having the wrist pin on rollers was from 2 stroke motors I have seen. Was thinking about friction not if the pin was parallel. Some of that stuff turns really high RPM so was wondering if it was possible on a HD or if any benefit. Sorry did not mean to highjack the thread
                              I don't see the two sets of long rollers working for very long. The insert or bushing will work. Some of the fueler motors with knife and fork rods used one full bushing across the entire crankpin. But they also added an oil pump that produced about 100 psi to make that set-up live.

                              Jim

                              Comment

                              • Dragstews
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 13740

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Dragstews

                                In the Dixie Cat, you can see a ad for a Stroker rod set ...
                                These were the one and the same that S&S was selling with their logo casted in ...
                                Also made in Japan by the same company ...
                                Well, lookie at what I dug up ...



                                Look familiar .. ??

                                Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                                Comment

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