Buying Machine Tools At Auction?

[rockman96]

I'm 68, I think D. is the same age, and many other mechanics who know about the old stuff are themselves old as well. Several of the old wrenches in my area have passed in the last decade, and that attrition will continue apace. You younger men are going to have to step up and do what you are planning to do, or there won't be anyone, and soon.

This is cold, sad truth. And time just seems to keep going faster. You, and the guys you are talking about truly are disappearing commodities.

[confab]

This is cold, sad truth. And time just seems to keep going faster. You, and the guys you are talking about truly are disappearing commodities.

I keep saying that someone needs to do a book and pass all this info along..

But apparently that sounds like a crazy idea to everyone but me?

[Hoghead]

I keep saying that someone needs to do a book and pass all this info along..

But apparently that sounds like a crazy idea to everyone but me?

You want that book? Check out 'How to run a lathe' from South Bend Lathe. Billy Lane practically self taught himself with it. He said 'Buy it and read it on the toilet instead of Playboy'

[Hoghead]

I probably should.. But I have to take off work to do that. None are really close to me.

I talked to the Mrs. about it last night and she's all for it. More excited about it than I am, actually.

I thought I could do some online auctions and waste very little time and money that way.

If I win? I do.. And then we can turn the trip to pick it up into a mini-adventure.

If I don't? I haven't lost much and I'm not in a particular hurry, anyway.

Do it , a good partner knows when to encourage. If you don't? you end up my age wishing you had. You seem to have a lot of energy, channel it.

[Hubbard]

the cell phone and social disease devices have taken the ability to create and restore from the human race.If you have the desire to create and maintain any fucking thing go for it full throttle. In my day the only way was to start sweepin floors in a machine shop and make the boss teach you shit. If you stayed with it you would soon learn. You're lucky to have the world at your fingertips to watch and learn. You can do in 10 minutes what used to take years. I say BRAVO for you! Put the fuckin phone down and build somethin

[DoomBuggy]

Do it , a good partner knows when to encourage. If you don't? you end up my age wishing you had. You seem to have a lot of energy, channel it.

^^^^ This times 10 ^^^^

[confab]

Do it , a good partner knows when to encourage.

She's very good at this. And she loves bikes. We're mocking up the drive line for her 42 WLA bobber right now, actually. (It has taken a back seat to legitimate work for the moment, though.)

I can just imagine all these guys in the world wonder how they can get their wives into bikes? I don't think I could get mine to stop if I wanted to. lol.

She doesn't want new ones, either. She likes neat old bikes.

She seems stoked on the idea of a little Harley machine shop. We've even talked a little about retailing some 45 parts.

So, I'm sure we'll end up with some machines if I can dig up deals on them.

[confab]

In my day the only way was to start sweepin floors in a machine shop and make the boss teach you shit. If you stayed with it you would soon learn. You're lucky to have the world at your fingertips to watch and learn. You can do in 10 minutes what used to take years.

Yeah.. It's pretty awesome.

Growing up was like you say - It took years to get experience. Your own shop at home with a lathe and a mill? LAWL.. Forget about it.

Even if you had them, you couldn't use them effectively without years of experience. The books were absolutely incoherent. If you wanted a particular machine? Good luck with the classifieds or the paltry number of local auctions. Then you had to move it all.

Even if you overcame all of that? Your house could easily have 60 whopping amps of service back then. None of it in your garage, either. You have to run that shit.

You're right. I remember what it was like.

A whole different word now! So much easier.

[nmaineron]

Another place to keep an eye out for are salvage dealers, company that buys manufacturing inventory for instance. I bought my 9" South Bend lathe from such a company and they had a Bridgeport for good money that I passed on and wish I hadn't. There aren't many of those guys around and they don't advertise well, at least not in my neck of the woods, but sometimes you can find some jewels.

[JBinNC]

Another place to keep an eye out for are salvage dealers, company that buys manufacturing inventory for instance. I bought my 9" South Bend lathe from such a company and they had a Bridgeport for good money that I passed on and wish I hadn't. There aren't many of those guys around and they don't advertise well, at least not in my neck of the woods, but sometimes you can find some jewels.

I got my Bridgeport from a machinery dealer in Richmond. I payed a premium price, but got a good machine. Brought it home (6 hours) in my friend's half ton pickup. We were low riders that day, for sure.

Jim

[farmall]

IME there is no need unless moving REALLY large items to bother with personal insurance if you don't mind eating the cost of dropping your new toy (which you do not do because you do not do stupid shit) and the point of rigging it yourself properly is not only not to do that but get complete control of the machine all the way home and afterwards. This is not difficult. I've moved and helped move many machine tools and there are plenty of photographic examples (google "moving a Bridgeport" for ideas) of how to do it safely.

Hunt steel in advance from beam to box to pipe. That can't go wrong since your're building a metalworking shop in the first place. Know caster load ranges and know you can use any number of casters. Scaffolding casters slide into pipe so you can use them on multiple dollies. There is no downside to owning steel, hardware and casters because it's an adult erector set. Since anyone wanting a machine shop should already have a welder (stick is fine) you can fab stuff like toe jack tops for hydraulic jacks. You can hunt useful jacks (you can never have too many of those either) like the classic OTC style forklift jack which is excellent for raising the stuff confab mentions. You can accumulate wooden blocks and steel shims. Even if you bought most of the stuff new it would pay off vs. paying a rigger for their brief intervention.

But, I don't have a fork lift, anyway? I don't have any big, motorized stuff? I guess I could still do damage and be liable, but everything I want is relatively small. I think I could take most of it apart and carry it?

Forklifts are overrated and cannot go many places machine tools are to be found, like across a soft dirt back yard into a low door height garage with no room for a forklift mast to move a tool that's facing the wrong way or buried. Fuck all that. The manual way done right is quick, stable, safe (I'm a fanatic about not squashing me), cheap and has zero disadvantages. It's modular, easy to reconfigure with cordless or corded tools (6" angle grinder with zip disk, drills, multibit, a few twist drill bits) on the spot.

While you can do stuff like remove the ram on a knee mill if you have to as I did once unless that mill is truly trapped it's easier to flip the head and leave the ram attached. Thinking is free and when your solution prohibits tipping your solution is safe.

Move very slowly and shim under anything you lift. Falling is a hazard because of how FAR a thing falls. If it can only fall a quarter inch that's far safer than letting shit wobble in space. Own a pallet jack since every shop needs one but only use those for small objects at very short distance on perfect concrete or steel. Pallet jacks should not be primary movers since steel slides on steel and their "trike" design tips easily.

The example Enco lathe (an old Enco makes my professional machinistbro money every day as that size is so convenient) is easy but how to do outriggers to prohibit tipping depends on the base.

Pic shows one of my outriggers. The large casters are desirable for less rolling resistance. This one has welded plates on the ends but the casters bolt onto them for easy removal and of course all threads get anti-seize. Welding the casters to the channel would be too limiting. The two center holes match the last machine we moved. For heavier tools than confab is contemplating I'd add a center caster or two to limit bending but for a typical knee mill etc that's ample. The holes can be used with heavy allthread to lift a machine tool from the ground after bolting other steel beneath (channel permits reaching inwards to hold nuts) or you can use blocks etc to lift the tool to slide the outrigger WITHOUT WHEELS beneath the tool. No wheels means ya only need lift the tool just enough to get the channel etc and a wrench beneath to hold the nut for your (industrial quality, thick as you can fit) allthread (most of which you wisely precut and chamfered and tried the nuts on beforehand). Lift machine, slide channel etc beneath, shim beneath channel so it cannot possibly crush fingers, bolt on and repeat.

After you bolt the outrigger to the tool base then you install the second at the opposite end of the tool. Now your tool is stable and you can jack the outriggers to bolt on the casters or toss steel pipe to skid on that. You can toss old mobile home frame (collect that shit!) underneath to move over gravel or earth. Doing all this is much less complex than reading it sounds. Have the metal and casters at hand to picture various combos them fab what you like. I always drill machine attachment holes oversize and use large flat washers to speed alignment.

Width should suit your trailer of course. Pushing is awkward and humans are weak. I prefer to pull with manual winches most of the time because I can put them anywhere in combination. Wire rope and clamps are cheap making extending a cable very low effort and a zip disc lets ya cut lengths in the field. Anti-seize the rope clamp threads for reuse. All the little details I list are what make this shit easy but most people don't mention them and expect other mechanics to figure it out but intuition ain't 100-percent reliable.
Never put body parts underneath heavy shit that's not safely blocked.
Never hurry because slow is fast.
Have plenty of snacks and water with you so no need for lunch breaks.
THINK. Obstacles disappear when you think.
Bring all the gear your towing vehicle permits.
Have duplicate drill bits.
If you need something like a long reach wrench cut one up and extend it. Special tools quickly made are speed operations.
Understand the basic geometry of what you are doing.
Bring intelligent help. Two people is sufficient for nearly any tool you can carry on a car trailer i.e. several thousand lbs
You probably jack heavier trucks all the time for maintenance.
Have more cargo straps than you think you'll need.
If your trailer doesn't have plenty of anchor points that fit your straps buy a bunch of D-rings or heavy U-bolts and weld 'em on. More is better than fewer.
Own at least one seriously long well made pinch or pry bar. Know how to use it (that is not always intuitive!)
Lever dollies are easy to make. I don't have one at moment since I've so many other tools but will eventually add one. No need for bearings either since a piece of round solid bar (old axle etc) will do and is a common style.

Save and print this since memory is fallible. Add your own inputs as ya go. Take lots of reference pics. The work is easy with the right gear which you will use for life and the right gear is plenty affordable and trivial compare to paying riggers who get paid by the hour. Once your new toy is home you can halt and take all the breaks you want but small lathe and mill moves are easy.

Where space is an issue it's common to place items like mills in a corner of a room and if there isn't quite enough space to fully traverse the table you can fab a rolling base with jack screws. The mill of course needs to be level but unlike a lathe the rigidity of the typical knee mill is designed into the base. Lathes OTOH (but small lathes have little risk) can be twisted by improper leveling but that's often and easily solved with a stout base. Oil patch and other mobile machine shops are worth study.

I never met anyone who cried themselves to sleep over having their own home shop. The money isn't really much over time but the capability and convenience of having the gear at hand is a game changer. Downtime is waste and the more gear ya have the more productive (not just fun) uses it will offer you. I should have built a machine shop thirty years ago.

[confab]

and there are plenty of photographic examples (google "moving a Bridgeport" for ideas) of how to do it safely.

Odd you would say that.. I was just reviewing this thread I saw in google images:

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49394

Lever dollies, Scaffolding Casters and forklift jacks are things I never heard of before. I can easily see where they would be ideal for this sort of thing.

The example Enco lathe (an old Enco makes my professional machinistbro money every day as that size is so convenient) is easy but how to do outriggers to prohibit tipping depends on the base.

It is a good size. Someone who knows what they're doing could probably make money with it. I expect this to be a money losing endeavor, though. When I say Harley Machine Shop, I really mean "Harley Machine Shop" in quotes. Because I have no business destroying someone else's antique castings and parts.

It's exclusively for me and the Mrs, and for destroying our antique castings and parts. So, I really want to do this as cheaply as possible because it's just going to be a big money pit.

But that size lathe is pretty much what I'm looking for. With all of its threading features and low weight and price.

Everything else you wrote is great advice and I appreciate it.. But I guess the biggest thing I wonder about is simple shit - Like, how do you lower the lathe from the stand? Engine hoist?

Those stands don't look like they would take a lot of abuse and dragging with a winch before they sprung or failed outright.

But, it may not matter. I may have a line on one someone had set up in a bedroom (LOL! SERIOUS!!) and it would either take half a dozen Samoans or disassembly to remove.

[JBinNC]

When I moved my Bridgeport (we removed the head before transport to cut down height and lower the C/G), I called a wrecker, and with the eye bolt in the top of the ram, he lifted it off the truck and set it on my concrete floor as far in as he could reach. $60. Then I scooted it into position, about 25 feet, with a gandy bar. I don't to this day know where I got the bar. Probably spoils of an auction (buy everything on the floor of this room, one money). The Bridgeports have a threaded hole in the top of the ram for the eye bolt, it's a standard feature.

Jim

[confab]

The lathe plan (Excepting the one in the bedroom, which poses unique challenges) is probably going to be something like this:

1) My railroad bar as a lever dolly. Roll the engine hoist in on a rented equipment dolly. Assemble it. Raise the lathe up high enough to block up and slide the engine hoist under. (May employ the floor jack also?)

2) Separate lathe from the stand.

3) Lower lathe onto one of these and strap it down.

https://artsrental.com/products/roofing-cart-30-x-60

3.5) Repeat process with the stand if it is necessary, using a second rented shingle cart. Depending on the stand.

4) Drag the entire mess onto my trailer with the electric winch.

5) Drive home.

Sound like it would work? The CG stays low that way. Seems safe?

Once it is home? I'm golden. The shop has a 10K and a 12K lift to unload anything I want. Getting it on a trailer is the problem.

[tomsoftail]

https://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/d/boylston-sunnen-hone/7355051736.html

I knew I saw this looking at motorcycle parts on my local cl