Question about rod bearings

[Hubbard]

I recently did some work on a bottom end and from looking for bearing cages noticed that since the early shovels H-D had reduced the no. and width of the rollers from 54 to 51 to 48 with the evo's. Was this purely an economical move? Seems like the lower no. of rollers would shorten the life span, true? And in a Pan or early shovel, with routine maintenance and treated with respect what would the life expectancy of a bottom be,100,000 miles or more?

[JBinNC]

It is a matter of economies of manufacturing. The original steel cage rod bearings with 18 rollers were made by H-D.The aluminum cage 17 roller bearings were developed and manufactured by INA (I have read) and the stamped steel cage 16 roller bearing is just a modern iteration of the same thing, again by INA. All of those changes were driven by business decisions, but do not seem to affect longevity, since the evo motors with the fewest rollers also run the longest. But evos benefit from modern oils and a good filter system.

My 2c,
Jim

[Dragstews]

When you buy a set of rods from S&S Cycle they will come with steel cage bearings in em ...

[Hubbard]

It is a matter of economies of manufacturing. The original steel cage rod bearings with 18 rollers were made by H-D.The aluminum cage 17 roller bearings were developed and manufactured by INA (I have read) and the stamped steel cage 16 roller bearing is just a modern iteration of the same thing, again by INA. All of those changes were driven by business decisions, but do not seem to affect longevity, since the evo motors with the fewest rollers also run the longest. But evos benefit from modern oils and a good filter system.

My 2c,
Jim

what would you consider an expectancy for early shovels or pans mileage wise?

[JBinNC]

what would you consider an expectancy for early shovels or pans mileage wise?

When I took my '50 pan motor apart at 26 years of age (the motor, not me, I was only 24), the crankpin, rollers, and races were still good, but worn to the point that clearance was LARGE. It was still running, but due for a rebuild. The materials H-D used back then was far superior to what they used in the '70s and '80s, in my opinion. But most of the bikes did not have oil filters, and were run on non-detergent oils. So many of the old motors I have seen have a lot of dirt and carbon, and even fully blocked oil passages. So it's hard to compare pans and early shovels with anything from the 70s forward. I'd say in general, 50,000 miles would be average for an early bottom end, at the time, and half that or less for a top end.

Compare that to a man from here in town that put over 200,000 miles on an evo, had it rebuilt, and ran it to a total of over 440,000 miles. That is true and documented, and H-D has that bike from the original owner.

Jim

[Hubbard]

Reason I ask is I've got a 53 here apart that I built a long time ago thats got in excess of 100,000 on it and the crank pin shows no micable wear. It has had the oil dumped every 1000 miles and not raced or beat to death. Rods show about .0005 egg and the rollers about .0004 of wear.

[JBinNC]

Reason I ask is I've got a 53 here apart that I built a long time ago thats got in excess of 100,000 on it and the crank pin shows no micable wear. It has had the oil dumped every 1000 miles and not raced or beat to death. Rods show about .0005 egg and the rollers about .0004 of wear.

Sounds like you did a good job of building it, and taking care of it.

Jim

[Hubbard]

I remember reading about a retired guy that bought one of the 1st evo's and racked up a ton of miles,took it in for something and when the dealer found out the mileage on it traded the guy a new one so they could tear it down and have a look cause no one had that many miles on one yet. Same dude?

[Dragstews]

Harley's was designed to be rebuilt ..

A hone job on the rods will get them round again and fitted up with oversize rollers, back to new and ready for another 100,000 miles ..

This can be done to them many times till they get over the max size of rollers ..
Then new races can be installed and start off at std size rollers all over again ..

By the time they will need the races replaced, your great grandkids will be riding the crap out of the scoot ...

Edit;

By the time you buy the races, rollers and do the work, you'll have more money in them than what a set of re-pops will cost ...

[JBinNC]

I remember reading about a retired guy that bought one of the 1st evo's and racked up a ton of miles,took it in for something and when the dealer found out the mileage on it traded the guy a new one so they could tear it down and have a look cause no one had that many miles on one yet. Same dude?

Yes. Dave Willett of here in High Point, NC. He called the bike "Old Charlie."

Jim

[Hubbard]

Harley's was designed to be rebuilt ..

A hone job on the rods will get them round again and fitted up with oversize rollers, back to new and ready for another 100,000 miles ..

This can be done to them many times till they get over the max size of rollers ..
Then new races can be installed and start off at std size rollers all over again ..

By the time they will need the races replaced, your great grandkids will be riding the crap out of the scoot ...

Edit;

By the time you buy the races, rollers and do the work, you'll have more money in them than what a set of re-pops will cost ...

Races are about 25 bux, rollers are 14. you got teddys rods for 39 bux?

[JBinNC]

Races are about 25 bux, rollers are 14. you got teddys rods for 39 bux?

Be wise to replace the crankpin, too. Remember, ALL the power the motor makes goes through the crankpin.

Jim

[Dragstews]

Races are about 25 bux,

Connecting Rod Race Set
Price: $53.68 .. VT No 10-0138
These ^^ are imports ..
Jim's: $86.85 .. VT No 10-0809

Rollers are 14.

Connecting Rod Roller Bearing Set Standard
Price: $39.82 ..VT No 10-0152
Torrington bearing set is standard size with 18 long and 36 short rollers .

Then the labor goes down ...

you got teddys rods for 39 bux?

Think you're in the Dixie cat .. ??
Those days are long gone, never to be again ..

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up what a set of rods from Dixie would cost .. $69.50 ...
These are bare rods that do have the races & bushings installed, but not sized ..

Went to digging in the backroom and found a set of rods from Dixie that was sold as a complete kit ..
Dealer cost was $119.50 back in the day ...



I miss Harry (RIP) ...

[Hubbard]

Think you're in the Dixie cat .. ??
Those days are long gone, never to be again ..

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up what a set of rods from Dixie would cost .. $69.50 ...
These are bare rods that do have the races & bushings installed, but not sized ..

Went to digging in the backroom and found a set of rods from Dixie that was sold as a complete kit ..
Dealer cost was $119.50 back in the day ...



I miss Harry (RIP) ...

You do know there is a classified section here for peddlin your wares don't ya? I don't buy teddys chinese shit.

[Dragstews]

Oh .. These rods are not "For Sale" they are made in Japan and since I bought them years ago from Dixie, they will be used in a motor build that I'll spin together for myself ..

In the Dixie Cat, you can see a ad for a Stroker rod set ...
These were the one and the same that S&S was selling with their logo casted in ...
Also made in Japan by the same company ... That didn't go over very well, Harry was under selling S&S ... Started a bit of a War from what I heard !!