Old Hat

[Dragstews]

[Dragstews]

Went from the 96 ci stock bore of 3.750" to 103 ci at a bore of 3.875"

Grained 7 more cubes by bore along ....

The case bore fixture stayed in the toolbox on this job ...
But, "If" it went into play the bore could have jumps up to 4.125" bore.
(That bore would require new A/M "Big Bore" jugs)

Add a stroker crank and ya could be tooling around on a 124 ci scoot still sporting stock H-D cases .. !!

Shoot, why stop there...



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[JBinNC]

How many passes d?

Jim

[Dragstews]

Took 5 to get it out to .004" under finish running fit ... Those 4 will be honed ..

Going .030" at a wack, could go more but I do like to take it easy on my boring bar ...

P.S.

You would not believe what those cuttings will do for your tomatoes ...




.... (I am Iron Man) ....

[Dragstews]

Do a wash up and this one is done ....

It's a boring job, I'm here to tell ya ... !!

[TriNortchopz]

what stones you use for finish honing?
didn't you share info before about a super-fine finish? what application would that be used or is it specific to the type of rings?

[Dragstews]

Aw yes .... Plateau honing

What finish you see on the cylinder I just bored is a 280 grit ...



How bout that... He bores without using torque plates ... !!

[farmall]

How bout that... He bores without using torque plates ... !!

Ever try that (for example not on a final pass or or a scrap jug) to measure the difference? If not significant on a boring cut, maybe test hone a scrap jug?

It would be cool to know what region of a jug measurably distorts (or not).

[TriNortchopz]

An interesting read on distortion of aluminum cylinders, such as Evo:

Cylinder Construction

"...One of the most important characteristics of a cylinder, and one that doesn't get talked about nearly enough in my opinion, is bore distortion. Cylinders distort due to the loads placed on them, and also due to non-uniformity in their thermal expansion. They twist and distort when they get clamped down, and they twist and distort as they grow from the heat of the motor.

This distortion is a bad thing. In particular, ring seal suffers. When you have an out of round cylinder, you're asking the rings to change shape as they move up and down the bore. That's not going to happen to a very great extent at all. Instead, they leak...

The casting design also affects how the cylinder behaves in the torque plate.
Here's another true story that illustrates this. Not long ago, a local shop brought us a pair of aftermarket cylinders for boring and honing. These cylinders were aluminum with cast iron sleeves, and were hefty and appeared to be high quality stuff.
We did the job, fitted the pistons precisely to .0020 clearance, and delivered them.

Well, the guy calls us up, mad as hell, tells us we didn't get the fit right, the pistons won't even go into the cylinders!
He brings it all back over to us, and he's right, they won't slide in.
We put a cylinder into a torque plate and did the measurements again. Hmm, dead nuts perfect.
We then put the piston into the cylinder with the torque plate still attached and it fell through!

That was just a very poorly designed cylinder, it was moving more in and out of the torque plate than the clearance spec for the piston. How the hell you're supposed to make that work, I have no idea...
One thing we've learned in all that experience is that all plated aluminum cylinders are not created equal. There are real and measurable differences in quality and design that ultimately directly affect the satisfaction of the customer..."



https://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_cylinders.shtml

[Dragstews]

Had a "Know it All" Guy up North tell me it's a sin to bore Shovel jugs without using plates ...

Well, since I been boring those Cast Iron jugs for more than 40+ years without using plates on em, I did a test to see if he was full of shit or not ...

In the above video they are using an inside mic. not all that fond of measuring the bores with that (It relies on feel mostly). I use a dial bore gauge that read in tenths ... Lessens the margin of error .. !!

My test was to bore a set of Shovel jugs using plates on one and not the other ....
Did the boring on both, didn't see a tenth of one thousandth difference ..
Next was to finish hone em to running wall fit, again not a tenth of a difference was seen ...

At that point in the time-line I pretty much figured that boy's eyes was brown ...



Different story on Aluminum jugs with a steel liner ... They do move around a wee bit, and as the steel liner is bored super thin, that wee bit becomes a lot ....

P.S.

On the jug I just bored, I shoot for 2 tenths or less taper ..
This one I got lucky with and attained 0 taper ...
(Sometimes it happens, just need to take multiples readings with the dial bore gauge as the honing is going down and let it cool down to room temp for the readings)

Bet that Northern Boy was good at ....

[Dragstews]

One more thing I noticed in the vid ..

He did all his boring with one tool bit .. ??

I use two, a roughing bit that does the heavy cuts, then the last .002" thousands are with the finishing bit . Different rake angles are in use on the bits .
This dang near leaves a finish on the cylinder walls that a ball hone could be used to final hone with .
Was trying to see what bit he was using to do all the cuts with ??? But they didn't do a close up of the bit ..

If the roughing bit was only used, best to leave around .007" or .008" in order to get under the tooling cuts left from boring to hone.
And that would be mostly done with 100 grit stones till .002" is left in the bore to be taken out with the 280 grit stones ..

The rough cutting is done on the slow speed of the bar, finish cut sees the high speed .

Anyhow, that's the way I go about it .
(So far, so good)



I tooled up my boring bar to do most all kinds of motors, that's a Lacy Williams roll over stand .
Can do V-8s and also marine blind-hole boring in that critter .
Among other stuff ..

[Flexgrow]

How many passes d?

[farmall]

One more thing I noticed in the vid ..

He did all his boring with one tool bit .. ??

I use two, a roughing bit that does the heavy cuts, then the last .002" thousands are with the finishing bit . Different rake angles are in use on the bits .
This dang near leaves a finish on the cylinder walls that a ball hone could be used to final hone with .
Was trying to see what bit he was using to do all the cuts with ??? But they didn't do a close up of the bit ..

If the roughing bit was only used, best to leave around .007" or .008" in order to get under the tooling cuts left from boring to hone.
And that would be mostly done with 100 grit stones till .002" is left in the bore to be taken out with the 280 grit stones ..

The rough cutting is done on the slow speed of the bar, finish cut sees the high speed .

Anyhow, that's the way I go about it .
(So far, so good)

I tooled up my boring bar to do most all kinds of motors, that's a Lacy Williams roll over stand .
Can do V-8s and also marine blind-hole boring in that critter .
Among other stuff ..

Your way should save a lot of stone wear. I'm certainly no boring bar expert but it makes machining sense.

[Dragstews]

How many passes d?

See post #4 ..

Your way should save a lot of stone wear, but it makes machining sense.

I got an oar in the water from the same boat that your in ....

[brownie17]

Great pictures, thank you.

[Dragstews]

What the hellz ..
I have em, might as well use the dang things ...



One to go ....

After the 80" Shovel jugs are done, got a set of new re-pop Panhead jugs to bore to 3-1/2" ...

[Dragstews]

Getting the 52 re-pop Pan jugs prepared for boring...
Since a stroker is in play, had to lower the top-end oil return holes...

We don't want it to be smoking like Casey Jones' old 382 engine .. !!



I was going to weld up the holes in the cylinder bores, but decided to install S&S bypass plugs instead ...



The Good Folks at S&S makes it easy to lower the top-end oil return holes by making these plugs PN 93-1032-S ...



I made up a driver for installing the plugs ..



The plugs cap off the og oil drain hole ...



The line parallel to the base flange is where the new holes will be drilled ..



Next to do is to drill the case for the new holes to intersect ....



Old Hat made easy ....
(BTW, "Casey" was a Kentucky Boy)