Need some help picking a lathe and mill

[seaking]

When you get down to it, they're junk but I like my 12x48 atlas (craftsman). No hardened ways, no rigidity, no quick change. That's fine. I mounted it to a concrete bed and the lantern works fine. Setup to grind using a starrett or equiv. protractor and the South Bend "how to run a lathe" and grind your own tooling. Gear change: fixed is fine if you have the OG manual and all the gears. The gears are cheap.

I make all my cuts then final thousandths use a file, then sandpaper. That center fixture is worth $250 on ebay (although that's the smaller one, I think it's only $80-150). I paid $800 for a 10x48 atlas some five years ago, tried to sell it it went nowhere but don't have the heart to part it out. Came with that cast center rest, 4 jaw, 3 jaw, some chucks, some tooling. It's fine but slow, guys hate them because they don't grind their tooling correctly.

[seaking]

Watch TUBALCAIN on youtube for best at home lathes, mills. He has a ton of really useful info on small lathes and other home shop machines, the cheap American machines.

My big problem with the "at home" shit (and that's really what it is, shit) is that it's not repeatable when working. I've thrown out probably a grand in lost parts because of my south bend mill--that's probably 60% the mill's fault and 40% mine. And it's still leaps and bounds better than any chicom or taiwan crap made by JET. I hate my Jet spindle sander, it's been junk from day one.

What I'm saying, you move a five thou cut on the dial. It may cut three, five, or eight. So you measure and gauge accordingly. Say it cuts a four. Next part you're right back at square one--it may cut a three, 5, or eight! That's when you start throwing parts out and it's infuriating. Especially when you're learning. I have YEARS in getting to know my equipment, it's taken me years to find out it isn't reliable. I make it work, but I hate it and I still throw out parts however it's far less. It leads to insanity; that may make someone quit or lose a lot of money. Honestly there is no real opportunity to learn on your own, how do you know it's not the machine, it's you?

That's why you see these atlas or non hardened way lathes mounted on wood or nothing for sale. Down the bed, as it cuts, you may have it set to five--but it could cut at 3, 6, 4 say as you move down the part. Alignment and rigidity, tool setup is key and you'll take a lot longer to set up on a junk lathe. I have mine set up on a concrete bed and it's still difficult.

If you want to buy a lathe, minimum bed length should be 48in. Minimum bed length for a mill should be 36in. Greater is always better.

Good mills: wells index, cincinnati, bridgeport (no. 1), don't buy a drill press and try to use it as a mill. Good lathes: Clausing makes a really nice home setup (same manf as Atlas), Leblond, Sheldon.

Call around to machine shops, tool and die and ask if they have a small lathe they'd like to sell. Sometimes these old guys are sold on a small package and never use it. Sometimes retired guys take those small setups home and again don't use them. Esp. if your uncle is in tool and die he should be pointing all this out to you. You aren't going to get good advice on here, check on Practical Machinist.

The heavier the better, it should at a minimum come with its own stand.

[Hubbard]

I'm so enviros of you guys the know how to use these machines and then can afford to set them up.

Kudos to all of you..





I wish

We're all born with just a dick and 2 balls, the rest you have to learn. Some just want to know how more than others.

[seaking]

Crack a book and stop cracking so many beers is my advice.

This is what I'd read first and what most shop classes required to read:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013PXEDG0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

There's a documentary on Studebaker and their workers, during WWII a line worker picked up a South Bend Lathe and had his girls read that book, they all took turns producing contract parts for the gov't. My mom hand sanded dies for money when she was a kid, it's really not that complicated work--just don't screw it up! I know it's all intimidating work (and dangerous), I wish there were still people in my family that were in trades but they're all dead and gone so I had to pick it up myself, it didn't take much more than patience and a little bit of reading 10-15 minutes a day.

I also have tried to go to the library and look up good books on woodworking, specifically pattern making but usually come up short. I think it's best to go to a really large library in an industrial area and look there for books on the trades, like pattern making or tool and die, foundry practice. And don't worry about whether you understand or comprehend it all-just read it, the necessary info will come out of the woodwork once you buy the tool and operate it. What got me into pattern making was just bumbling into tools at local estate sales, visiting the local foundry, buying some cheap woodworking tools (scroll, band saw, whittling knives, some other carpentry tools was all I needed maybe $1000 total over 5 years). Here's my bible:

https://books.google.com/books?id=O9VpRve60tMC&pg=PA74&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Hubbard]

Any edition of machinerys handbook is a must have. It will help you design a part, pick the material you need, understand the process to machine it,how to grind any tooling you may need. I'm an idiot but the handbook showed me how to do trigonometry and do algebra so I could make adapters to mix and match brakes,hubs and wheels.Want to save money on tools? Build your own laps, pullers,special sockets and wrenchs.Need to know which welding rod or process to use? It's in the book. Wanna make gears or sprockets?It's in the book. Any edition either from the 40's or the 90's has the info. you need. Machinists handbook from Audells is good too.

[Hubbard]

Saddletramp, you're in ky right? there is a LeBlond lathe on facefuck marketplace in lawrenceburg ky(?) I ran one of these for years and you will not need any other lathe than this.

[SaddleTramp98]

Saddletramp, you're in ky right? there is a LeBlond lathe on facefuck marketplace in lawrenceburg ky(?) I ran one of these for years and you will not need any other lathe than this.

Yep, that's about an hour away from me, and where my dad lives. Problem is it's a little out of my budget at the moment, I dont have a trailer, my dad probably wont help me move it and I probably dont have time to source up the stuff to make a rigging set up like Farmall has. I dont a have a phase converter and dont know much about them or how they work either. I'm running 110v only at the moment.

I just need to do some more research on machining and get a trailer bought here soon and work on getting a rigging kit going. There's a machine shop auction going on near here as well and they have some lathes, mills, head resurfacing machines stuff like that. buckets of sockets, wrenches and handtools, taps, drill bits, tooling cutters. I may bid on some of the smaller lots I can fit in my truck. They'll probably go pretty cheap.

That Machinery handbook sounds great I'll have to see about getting that. I bought a welding handbook and it's pretty basic, most of the stuff I learned already watching youtube but its good to have I guess.

Thanks for all the info everyone I've learned alot just from this thread, I need to get on the practical machinist forum one of these days.

[flatman]

When clarifying the size of the lathe ask about the swing from the center to the bed. Not everybody measures the same way. They may be talking diameter and not swing. Found this was the case quite a few times!! Also the craftsmen / atlas 101 lathes usually have a bushing in the headstock. These, at times can, be problematic, Also the y looking thing in the 3rd pic is the rack for the thread cutting gears

[Hubbard]

contact l.s.starrett and they will send you a small pamphlet on tools and rules. also ask for any literature they have. ask them for a tap drill and decimal equivelant chart. used to be free,,,,,,,another couple of books are Machine Shop Practice volumes 1&2 by k.h.moltrecht. look 'em up used or some kind of download.vintage machinists and toolmakers books are plentiful on ebay

[seaking]

Yep, that's about an hour away from me, and where my dad lives. Problem is it's a little out of my budget at the moment, I dont have a trailer, my dad probably wont help me move it and I probably dont have time to source up the stuff to make a rigging set up like Farmall has. I dont a have a phase converter and dont know much about them or how they work either. I'm running 110v only at the moment.

I just need to do some more research on machining and get a trailer bought here soon and work on getting a rigging kit going. There's a machine shop auction going on near here as well and they have some lathes, mills, head resurfacing machines stuff like that. buckets of sockets, wrenches and handtools, taps, drill bits, tooling cutters. I may bid on some of the smaller lots I can fit in my truck. They'll probably go pretty cheap.

That Machinery handbook sounds great I'll have to see about getting that. I bought a welding handbook and it's pretty basic, most of the stuff I learned already watching youtube but its good to have I guess.

Thanks for all the info everyone I've learned alot just from this thread, I need to get on the practical machinist forum one of these days.

When I bought my mill the owner put the mill in the truck with a forklift, then I pulled it off my truck using a wrecker. He extended the boom lift, it was just enough to pull it off the bed and place it on the ground with the machine resting over the lip of the garage slab. Then I moved it into the garage with 1in pipe.

I would rent a car hauler (full trailer) local from uhaul and do the same, have a wrecker come pull it off the back, it cost 75 dollars for the wrecker.

[Hubbard]

Could you just have a wrecker with a tilt bed pick it up and take it to your shop? Let it back down easy and come along it where you want it. Never underestimate the power of 3-4 pcs. of pipe for rollers. Old fork tubes are great,,,,,,,,,,if ya got em

[confab]

A lot of the affordable lathes I see in my "entry level" category are the South Bend, Craftsman/Atlas, Logan, etc..

It looks like they could be disassembled and moved that way pretty easily.

It would take a buddy and a pickup truck, but it doesn't look undooable.

A 9x13 turns into a 9x10ish when you actually go to do anything with it and have the tailstock loaded. Size wise, that's in mini-lathe territory.

You can get those cheap new, and even cheaper used. They run on 110 and the tooling and everything else is cheap. A couple hundred bucks at auction or on FB and you can carry them away by yourself.

They are maligned by real machinists, of course. But I really like mine and I've made some pretty cool things with it for the bike. They do threading (Not always english with the supplied gears, so watch for that) and have some cool features, like variable speed and power feed.

It isn't ideal, because anything less than a full blown machine shop isn't ideal. But if that's the budget? That's the budget. And the only lathe worse than a china lathe or an old lathe with some wear, is no lathe at all.

Nothing on a Harley is big. It's small bullshit like brake spacers and axle adapters and shit like that and almost anything will make useful motorcycle parts.

If you have a lathe of any type, you're going to love it. You're going to wonder how you did all this shit with a grinder and a drill before, and why anyone bothers.

[seaking]

I've got a craftsman 48in bed and it's fine, it doesn't work fast, but having the longer bed means that I can run a steady rest and set up an axle for turning. Most of the time I end up using the majority of the bed length.

I paid $900 and should've waited because I know of a clausing tool room lathe that's going for $900 that's on casters and a stand and has auto feed/thread. Like I said check tool and die shops.

[Hubbard]

Well go get the damn thing, ain't no such thing as too many lathes. The atlas/craftsman ain't the most accurate thing you'll ever meet but I've built several scooters and a shit load of tooling on it.I made all my case and transmission laps on mine and a bushell basket full of risers. Ask Burt Monroe what one will do. He built the worlds fastest Indian on one albeit had to replace the lead screw 3 times.

[Hubbard]

If anybody here has a copy of the harley davidson and indian wars, on page 140 there is a pic of E.Paul Dupont making gears on a belt drive South Bend lathe thats pretty cool. I don't have a camera or I'd post it.