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  1. #141
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    Why would anyone believe anything that anyone says that had/got covid. If they were so damn smart they wouldn't have got covid in the first place. That doesn't sound to smart to me.

    Just to clarify this ^^^^ was directed toward confab because of his one sided way of looking at covid. But after thinking about it, it could pertain to me also. Hell there has been many times I have gone to a store or someplace like that and think now that was stupid like getting to close to someone. But you learn from your mistakes and don't do it again.

    Stay safe all weather you get a shot or not.
    Last edited by Tattooo; 08-22-2021 at 7:07 AM.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post
    Why would anyone believe anything that anyone says that had/got covid. If they were so damn smart they wouldn't have got covid in the first place. That doesn't sound to smart to me.
    Wait...what?

  3. #143
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    *yawns loudly*

    Anyway.. As I was saying..

    Hospitalizations are way down from Covid's peak. CV19 isn't particularly dangerous, anyway. It mainly affects older people with commodities The data indicates the very young don't get or spread it. What I read says their mortality rate rounds to zero. The vaccine bypassed proper testing and safety protocols. The "experts" don't agree. They have been wrong from the very beginning of the outbreak - From the WHO saying human to human transmission was impossible, to their vaccine candidates being ineffective.

    There is no long term testing nor is there much data on those who have had Covid already. There is some data that indicates a vaccine isn't necessary, as our antibody levels are very good and appear to be very durable. (Unlike people who were vaccinated.) And even at that, the mortality rate for my demographic is estimated to be three tenths of one percent.

    As such, there is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever for me or a bunch of other people to rush out and get this stupid vaccine.

    NO ONE on this thread has put forth a good reason, either.


    Also:

    You're a total moron, Tattoo. You run all over this place being rude and someone finally has enough of it, and throws a little shit your way? And you fall apart. LOL!

    Some big, tough, biker you are.

    And by all means, feel free to withhold your sage wisdom in the future. It is absolutely fine.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    You're a total moron, Tattoo. You run all over this place being rude and someone finally has enough of it, and throws a little shit your way? And you fall apart. LOL!

    Some big, tough, biker you are.

    And by all means, feel free to withhold your sage wisdom in the future. It is absolutely fine.
    I run over this place??????? Do you mean like this?????????

    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    I fully expect the CDC to link old, HD motorcycles to poor impulse control any day now..
    Congratulations.
    Hell I haven't posted much in over a year.... You started this not me, I'm not running over anything or anyone.......... Your not drawing me in.......... LOL your irreverent say what you want..........

    This is the junk pile...... I'm going back to the real forum helping people with bike problems something that you know little about........
    Last edited by Tattooo; 08-22-2021 at 7:08 AM.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetch View Post
    Wait...what?
    Careful.. He's sensitive.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    Careful.. He's sensitive.
    Nope not me, I'm done here......... No minds will be changed here so why debate it???????????

    Back to helping people with bike problems............

    I did want to say this before I leave this thread, It's not that hard to NOT get covid......... Whether you get a shot or not it just takes a little common sense that's all............

    Best of luck to all..............
    Last edited by Tattooo; 08-21-2021 at 9:25 PM.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    *yawns loudly*

    Anyway.. As I was saying..

    Hospitalizations are way down from Covid's peak. CV19 isn't particularly dangerous, anyway. It mainly affects older people with commodities The data indicates the very young don't get or spread it. What I read says their mortality rate rounds to zero. The vaccine bypassed proper testing and safety protocols. The "experts" don't agree. They have been wrong from the very beginning of the outbreak - From the WHO saying human to human transmission was impossible, to their vaccine candidates being ineffective.
    There is no long term testing nor is there much data on those who have had Covid already. There is some data that indicates a vaccine isn't necessary, as our antibody levels are very good and appear to be very durable. (Unlike people who were vaccinated.) And even at that, the mortality rate for my demographic is estimated to be three tenths of one percent.

    As such, there is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever for me or a bunch of other people to rush out and get this stupid vaccine.

    NO ONE on this thread has put forth a good reason,either
    OK. Here's a source I can trust (Imperial College,London), on antibody levels after infection.

    'A recent study conducted by investigators from the Imperial College London, in collaboration with the University of Padova, has found that antibody levels remain high for at least 9 months after an infection with SARS-CoV-2, no matter if the individual was symptomatic or asymptomatic'

    Does a jab protect you against contracting Covid-19?
    Again , from Imperial:
    'New research has found that double vaccinated people were three times less likely than unvaccinated people to test positive for the coronavirus. These results from the Imperial-led REACT-1 study, a major coronavirus monitoring programme, are based on swab tests taken by almost 100,000 people in England between 24 June and 12 July.'

    So, if you are young should you give a damn whether you contract it or not? You'll probably survive if you do, and get 9 months free cover, eh?

    Again, from Imperial:

    'The study’s analyses of PCR test results also suggest that fully vaccinated people may be less likely than unvaccinated people to pass the virus on to others, due to having a smaller viral load on average and therefore likely shedding less virus.'

    So, as you aren't old/ill you'll be alright! It just boils down to whether you give a shit about passing it on to others...

    Taken from the below.

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/2277...-lower-double/
    Last edited by Hoghead; 08-21-2021 at 8:25 PM.

  8. #148
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooo View Post

    I did want to say this before I leave this thread, It's not that hard to NOT get covid......... It just takes a little common sense that's all............
    .[/QUO
    Now your a total ass wipe

  9. #149
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    [QUOTE=Fetch;849327]
    Now your a total ass wipe
    Fetch what ever you want to think...... I just hope people will do what's best for them and others. Like I've said before I'm not getting drawn into arguing about something that isn't going to change anyone's opinions............
    I have a right to my opinion just like you do yours.............
    Have a good one,

  10. #150
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    https://www.inquisitr.com/6495377/ph...vaccines-dies-

    Another hilarious fake death.

    BTW who would trust some silly Brit diploma mill like the Imperial College? What contributions to peer-reviewed science and medicine have THEY ever made?

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    https://www.inquisitr.com/6495377/ph...vaccines-dies-

    Another hilarious fake death.

    BTW who would trust some silly Brit diploma mill like the Imperial College? What contributions to peer-reviewed science and medicine have THEY ever made?
    Yeah! Like, 'what did the Romans ever do for us?' Bastards.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    OK. Here's a source I can trust (Imperial College,London), on antibody levels after infection.
    Fabulous. It's a short term study, but the sample is large. They seem reputable.

    I have a study from the NIH.

    The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.

    Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.

    Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.

    As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.

    “Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-...overy-covid-19
    And another, citing the journal Cell.

    The importance of these observations is that following recovery, neutralizing antibodies may persist, albeit at low levels, and may act as the first line of defense against future encounters of SARS-CoV-2 and possibly related human coronaviruses.

    Another interesting finding of this investigation is the remarkably stable antibody responses among the pre-pandemic and COVID-19 patients to the common human coronaviruses acquired in children and adults.

    These data are most consistent with the generation of long-lived plasma cells and refute the current notion that these antibody responses to human coronaviruses are short-lived.

    Moreover, the COVID-19 patients mounted increased IgG antibody responses to SARS-CoV-1, a related pathogen that none likely had experienced previous exposure to.
    https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...ble-and-robust
    Scientists are debating this. I'm a layman, so I don't want to skip into layman interpretations of scientific literature with you. Besides that, the studies don't address many of my core concerns, anyway.

    Again... I keep writing this stuff and nobody seems to have an answer for any of it that goes beyond hyperbole and rudeness.

    (Mostly from the progressive faction of the board. They got a bee in their bonnet over Donald Trump and they never really got over that. When Covid became political? Objectivity went out the window and it infected that, also.)

    I am concerned about bypassing safety protocols, generally.

    Emergency use is just that. I am reasonable and reasonable people can look at the demographics of covid and see a problem with older, sicker, people very quickly. It doesn't take years of study to see that these groups need help desperately and that a vaccine would benefit them greatly. I think they should be vaccinated if that is what they want, and based on completely objective data from everyone, everywhere, I see no reason why they would not wish to be vaccinated? There is no argument whatsoever on this point.

    However. It is not necessary to subject the entire population of the earth, and particularly the very young, to an experimental vaccine that hasn't been properly tested. The justification for this has always been murky, as has been the demand that people previously exposed to Cv19 be vaccinated as well.

    "It might be better" isn't a particularly convincing argument, give the novelty of the virus and the very limited science surrounding it and the limited opportunity for scientific study of it at this time. There are no long term studies because the virus hasn't been around for a long time, and the vaccine has been available for less than half of that.

    There are different vaccine candidates that have been approved, yet they are spoken about as one in the same. Why? Because there are no differences between them in performance, effectiveness and safety? That doesn't seem reasonable at all. Again, this is because of a lack of scientific study. There is a lack of scientific study because of a lack of time.

    Also, if the normal approval procedure we completely bypassed is useless and can be disregarded, then why do we have it at all? Is it useless? Is it stupid? If the answer is yes, then fine. If the answer is no, then some degree of caution is warranted.

    I see nothing but a relentless, almost mindless, push towards vaccination regardless of the risks or benefits. I see officials and previously reputable, global, organizations that have been completely wrong about Cv19. I see vaccines degrading rapidly and suddenly, boosters are necessary. That wasn't supposed to happen. Do they go on forever? Perhaps this makes sense for older, sicker people. But for everyone? I see Mr. Fauci admit to lying in an offer to get people to react in a manner he sees fit. This is an argument your mother can make and get away with. Not a scientist. I see the WHO behaving in ways that certainly appear to deliberately benefit China. I see a tremendous profit motive as well. I see gross hypocrisy by vaccination's loudest advocates. Add that all together and it diminishes public trust. This is understandable. After all, you become a "reputable" source in the first place by developing a reputation for honesty and good faith behavior.

    So, as you aren't old/ill you'll be alright! It just boils down to whether you give a shit about passing it on to others...
    lol. Really?

    Well, ya know.. If you gave a shit about the young people on planet earth, and weren't so selfish, you might be concerned about their safety as well? Isn't that a fair thing to say? You just admitted they won't die from this. And again, if you had a vaccine that worked you would have very little to worry about? Would you?

    I am quickly entering the age group where risks from Cv19 go up significantly, so I don't think the vaccine will hurt me in any significant way. Not in the time I have left. But, I have great reservations about using untested vaccines on very young people. It may affect them. We simply do not know because the studies do not, and cannot, exist yet.

    This is dangerous. You are talking about the next generation here. The torchbearers of humanity and many of them are too young to have any idea at all what the risks of vaccination are or may be. But we know they are at a very, very low risk of the virus itself.

    This mindless pursuit has got to be one of the most selfish and pig headed things I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm ashamed of it. I won't be a part of it. What will the children of today make of this when they grow up and read about it?

    Along those same lines, I am very concerned about the way Cv19 has been handled, generally.

    The shutdowns probably did more harm than good, but even excepting that, are we going to rush an untested vaccine candidate past our safety protocols every time there's a bug going around? There will obviously be a tremendous political and financial motive to do just that. But is it wise? Is it safe? Even if this vaccine is harmless, will the next one be? Or the next? What effect do you suppose this will have on the immune responses of future generations? Don't we want them to have the robust, natural immunity that we enjoyed?

    I have great misgivings about all of this. Every bit of it.

    No one has adequately answered these concerns and I doubt anyone can, because the science isn't there yet.
    Last edited by confab; 08-22-2021 at 9:30 AM.

  13. #153
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    PS: I think what I wrote above is reasonable. If you disagree, please be specific.

    If you just want to mock and BS around? I can do that too... But it isn't an argument.

    It's bsing around.

  14. #154
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    Related - A headline:

    Actress Melissa Joan Hart, 45, blamed unmasked children for her Covid ‘breakthrough’ diagnosis in a deranged rant this week.
    How embarrassing.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    PS: I think what I wrote above is reasonable. If you disagree, please be specific.

    If you just want to mock and BS around? I can do that too... But it isn't an argument.

    It's bsing around.
    Nope, it's reasonable. I find it very thought provoking.

  16. #156
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    I appreciate that.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post
    PS: I think what I wrote above is reasonable. If you disagree, please be specific.
    I wasn't going to respond in this thread again but.

    Now that was a good read, It sounds very reasonable to me also......... I've thought some of the very same things many times over the past almost 2 years..... And you have raised some very good points I hadn't thought of. But I'm well into the age group you were talking about so the choice was easy for me.............

    Stay safe all what ever you do............

  18. #158
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    Tattoo.. I would never suggest you shouldn't get the vaccine and I never meant to give anyone that impression at all. That was not my intention.

    I arranged it for my own dad and for the same reason - He's in a high risk group. In his age group, (based on the data we have VS his life expectancy) any potential risk posed by the vaccine is completely out weighed by danger of the virus.

    Anyone who thinks they need it should get it.

    I'm sorry I yelled at you.

  19. #159

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    You state the shut downs probably did more harm than good. Herd immunity and not shutting down did not work well for Sweden as an example. And to clarify, are you saying science is evolving as are recommendations and treatment as they learn more? Also as another specific example you state that the progressives got a bee in their bonnet over trump, so now it flowed over to covid, is this not hyperboil and bullshit of its own? You accuse everyone of hyperboil and bullshit but do it yourself? Also I dont consider the pandemic a bug that is going around (thus making the disease seem trivial) as you have eluded to several times. Please be specific in your response.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatman View Post
    You state the shut downs probably did more harm than good. Herd immunity and not shutting down did not work well for Sweden as an example.
    Well, Sweden isn't the United States.

    A lot of things aren't directly analogous between two countries because of demographic differences. This often true with healthcare and outcomes.

    For example, it is probably reasonable to assume a less densely populated, tropical country filled with younger and/or more healthy people will suffer less from Cv19 than a densely populated country filled with older and/or sicker people in a colder climate where they spend a great deal of time indoors.

    And herd immunity is ultimately what we have to protect us. Remember when this began, the lockdowns were put in place to prevent a strain on hospitals and hospital equipment. (Mainly ventilators.)

    The intention was never that anyone, anywhere, never contract Cv19 under any circumstances. The concern was too many cases at once, and you've got people left to die untreated in closets and hallways. So, it is about capacity. Not eliminating Cv19.

    The only alternative to herd immunity is a vaccine. No vaccine is 100% effective. The effects of the ones we have appear to be fading. And I never suggested "Herd Immunity" was the solution for everyone, and regardless.

    But those are the options, aren't they? You can take a vaccine (and apparently now boosters), or you can develop immunity.

    Right?

    And to clarify, are you saying science is evolving as are recommendations and treatment as they learn more?
    I said they don't know and more time for study is needed. Because we bypassed those long term studies to save time.

    This makes sense for certain people. Perhaps less so for others. Again, we don't know? The virus is new and it is novel. The vaccines are very, very new.

    Also as another specific example you state that the progressives got a bee in their bonnet over trump, so now it flowed over to covid, is this not hyperboil and bullshit of its own? You accuse everyone of hyperboil and bullshit but do it yourself?
    No. I don't consider it to be hyperbole at all. And it wasn't intended to be hyperbole.

    Also I dont consider the pandemic a bug that is going around (thus making the disease seem trivial) as you have eluded to several times. Please be specific in your response.
    Semantics. Use whatever term makes you feel comfortable.

    But remember when you do, Cv19 was treated as nothing more than some bug at first. Even the WHO said human to human transmission wasn't a concern. Political leaders and health officials were telling people to come to the celebration in Chinatown, for example. And to take the subway. it's alright. Nothing to fear!

    But, you can call it anything you wish. It really doesn't change anything I said at all.
    Last edited by confab; 08-22-2021 at 1:00 PM.

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