CHOP CULT HOME
Email Password
Search
  1. #1
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default BSA 1970 650 Lightning chopper

    Can I use the O-rings provided in the new kit on this build I was not sure if they would melt since the carbs bolt to the head? Click image for larger version. 

Name:	92023614_588352725099624_430537052283469824_n.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	133.5 KB 
ID:	103307

  2. #2
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default

    I just ordered some heat spacers going try them on face of head then carbs to the spacer.

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    987

    Default

    If you use a good quality viton or Nitrile O ring no issues, Heat spacers help regardless. Depending on the
    type of spacer, some use a gasket some dont. The original spacers were a fiberboard material, I can post a
    picture if you like, But many suppliers sell a paper-composite spacer and they dont need a gasket.

    There is a little bit of a trick to the o rings. Most knuckle draggers over tighten and in due course warp the
    carb bodies. The trick with an O ring is only to nip it up, NOT mash it down. The originals also used small O ring
    insulating rubber pucks on the carb studs as well. Most people are confused by this and discard them.
    Research the right way. (Factory workshop manual and parts book) Myself I will use the crappy pot metal
    Amals on restos but I detest them and their shittiness. I like Mikuni VMs personally but the JRC-PKW flat slides
    are excellent and cheaper than the Amal junk.
    Just my opinion.

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    9,264

    Default

    There is a little bit of a trick to the o rings. Most knuckle draggers over tighten and in due course warp the
    carb bodies.
    Oh yes they fucking do!

    My late mentor even figured out a way to straighten them (because flattening the flange doesn't save the bore) with a plate and long bolts to pull the ears back. It worked but I've never done it. He verified with a machinist straight edge.

    They make Amal Premiers of aluminum but I've not looked into it since other than the cool tickler I've no reason to care.

    Speaking of pot metal (Zamak or other zinc cheap shit) I found out Amals dissolve in phosphoric acid solution many years ago when dipping some corroded bodies. It was pretty neat as it exposed the internal passages.

    Before you install any O-ring, measure it with a caliper (ID, OD, thickness) so you can order bags of Viton or Buna rings for next to nothing. Then before you forget, order some via Ebay etc (or industrial suppliers if necessary) and stash them with your carb stuff.
    Last edited by farmall; 05-12-2020 at 6:17 PM.

  5. #5
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default

    Yes I got this now I ordered the Phenolic Spacers and the O-rings the carbs are pretty much new the old guy that had the bike lost use of his arms and He had got them and I dont think he knew alot about the spacers He dont even own a computer. But I put some kits in them and slides work great. I like the mikuni way better myself but this is just a project work of art bike I may just cruze it a few times each summer. Its just bad ass old school chop Like my HD chopper I only do old school even my dirt bikes are all 70s LOL love the Suzuki TS185s they rock. Thanks for the input Im hoping it will work out I put some drag pipes on her the other day and shes pretty loud.
    Last edited by winddrifter; 05-12-2020 at 7:53 PM.

  6. #6
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default

    10-4 will do.

  7. #7
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    987

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winddrifter View Post
    Yes I got this now I ordered the Phenolic Spacers and the O-rings the carbs are pretty much new the old guy that had the bike lost use of his arms and He had got them and I dont think he knew alot about the spacers He dont even own a computer. But I put some kits in them and slides work great. I like the mikuni way better myself but this is just a project work of art bike I may just cruze it a few times each summer. Its just bad ass old school chop Like my HD chopper I only do old school even my dirt bikes are all 70s LOL love the Suzuki TS185s they rock. Thanks for the input Im hoping it will work out I put some drag pipes on her the other day and shes pretty loud.
    Hah! hope for the future! I got a couple younger guys (20-30) I try and help out, pay it fwd, but funny you mention the Suzi TS185. I got a early 70s TS250, Mines blue and white. Great little bike. Traded a Triumph Bobber frame for it to a school teacher into customs. He admitted he got the Suzi for free from a neighbors estate. The family was pushing it to the curb for trash-scrap. I serviced it and its pretty nice. Good fun!

    Theres a lot of tricks to the Amals, tons of material out there on them. Biggest is the idle air circuit. It comes in off the side with a screw adjuster against a 20 thou jet that clogs up often intersecting with the front to back air bleed near the Aircleaner opening. Proof that with carb spray cleaner and a air nozzle. There is a guitar string or accupuncture needle that works good for clearing it. Built up scale use a commercial sonic cleaner to clean the hidden invisible nasties.

    But the original floats dont like modern fuel so need to get the new type floats. Dont leave it sit with fuel in it. get the drain style float bowls (Small screw in drain plugs) There also a trick to getting the cables nice and smooth. I use a spiral wrap and then shrink wrap over them so it does not kink or hang up. (Wrap about 4 inches so it makes a sweeping radius)

    Tuning by ear is an acquired art but it can be done. I also love to use a vacuum gauge with a inline damper and I have an old school snap on carb mixture reader that sticks a probe up the pipes.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Amal settings.jpg.opt860x541o0,0s860x541.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	116.2 KB 
ID:	103314Click image for larger version. 

Name:	amalPmixturecutaway9A6C726BF376.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	42.3 KB 
ID:	103315Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Amalsmellmyfinger1bb406.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	32.4 KB 
ID:	103316
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Amalflowmod1_zps41a7ab26.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	128.5 KB 
ID:	103317

  8. #8
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default

    Great info I do have the drains in the bowls I just thought I would use them since they came with the bike I will give them a try when I get the rest of the stuff. I had it sounding ok at one point had a good chop seems cold natured as hell but when warms up idles fast Im thinking some air leeking with them paper gaskets and I did not use the 0-rings that came with the kit. They are 930s and I think I got them clean but not sure on that one spot you were talking about I saw another post somewhere about the wire. I have a crappy vid I can post if you want to hear it. I will try to upload it here. But yes Im really liking the 185 would like to get a 250 sometime I have a 73 and 74 185 and a 71 TC90 got it cheep cool little bike has a high and low range. I may try to run the wire in there when I take them off again to add the heat sheilds and o-ring. take care.

  9. #9
    winddrifter
    Guest

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	genuine-amal-930-300-carburetter-complete-with-all-jets-righthand-p2389-2498_zoom.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	103319 This is the ones I have do you think the wire will work on those models ? the adjustments are side by side on them and not on left and right like the photo? Also would I need to notch this model like the last photo shows? thanks
    Last edited by winddrifter; 05-13-2020 at 2:17 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    987

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winddrifter View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	genuine-amal-930-300-carburetter-complete-with-all-jets-righthand-p2389-2498_zoom.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	103319 This is the ones I have do you think the wire will work on those models ? the adjustments are side by side on them and not on left and right like the photo? Also would I need to notch this model like the last photo shows? thanks
    Thats a clean looking carb, its got the extended tickler so thats a good sign. Here is how to proof it. Take a can of carb clean, use the little red straw. Or,, if you have a air powered squirter with solvent, not many have that. But remove the float bowl. theres a small hole going up INTO the carb body, IIRC its towards the front near the float pivot. Thats a passage to pass fuel thru. Now... on later carbs that passage is threaded. On unit singles (BSA 441 B25, T25 Triumph) They dont run the jet inside the air passage, its a screw in 20 thou jet.

    ** If the jet internally is damaged, clogged or beyond repair, drill it out and just use a screw in jet ala the unit singles.

    Anyrate,,, while apart, spray in the air bleed holes at the inlet going straight back. You SHOULD get a dribble into the main throat, you should also get spray into the float bowl area from that other hole. Now.. remove the air mix screw. Put a gloved finger over the air bleed holes at the inlet. Now squirt thru the mixture screw hole. Again, you should get a good flow out the bottom into the float bowl area and a good sized spurt into the main passage.
    Now,.. lastly Cap off the air bleed holes again AND the hole into the float bowl area. Now jam that straw into the air bleed hole and give a good squirt. Where the slide comes down, theres a ring in that main passage. There should be 2 tiny holes. One on either side of the slide. Look very carefully.. This final squirt you should see both holes spurt with a vigorous spray out of each hole.

    **IF NOT** Then you got scale, dirt, grunge, sludge or something in there. But ALL those passages have to be totally clear. Carb cant meter fuel and air if that passage has even a slight issue.

    I have a better diagram, but I am tired and going to bed. Ill try and find it tomorrow and post some pictures as well.

    Theres some good tutorials on balancing them both as well. MAP cycle had a good write up, as well as a good tutorial on Mikunis and race tuning. Also visit victory library.

    http://victorylibrary.com/CONC.htm

    Ahh,, sh*t I knew it was somewhere,, BUSHMAN is da Man!
    See: http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html

    He has the diagrams I was looking for, Study that!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Amalpilot circ.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	29.1 KB 
ID:	103321

  11. #11
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Here's some cutaway photos. First one from Bushmans, second from Vintage Bike


  12. #12

    Default

    great info going dive into this I was locked out of this forum for some reason but got back in now. thankx

  13. #13

    Default

    Looks great going check it all out thankx

  14. #14
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Now that I think of it---
    That is a clean looking carb you pictured. I wonder if it is a "Premier" or a new Wassell Premier.
    If it is it will have a removable pilot jet on the opposite of the side pictured. A great improvement.
    If this is the case you can disregard the posts on cleaning with a piece of wire.
    Will also have anodized slide and stay-up float, etc.

    Don't worry about notching the float bowl for increased flow unless you plan to ride WOT for extended time.
    Last edited by Nanonevol; 05-14-2020 at 7:03 AM.

  15. #15

    Default

    No mine are the old style carbs that was just a photo I used. I think Im good to go now waiting on parts to arrive before I tear down if this fails going to the new style or a Mikuni. Im going post another thread on some angled extenders for the carbs sortly like old webco style know of any place I can buy them? Photo is not correct just shows sorta what Im looking for. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Picture or Video 396.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	93.8 KB 
ID:	103351

  16. #16
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    987

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winddrifter View Post
    No mine are the old style carbs that was just a photo I used. I think Im good to go now waiting on parts to arrive before I tear down if this fails going to the new style or a Mikuni. Im going post another thread on some angled extenders for the carbs sortly like old webco style know of any place I can buy them? Photo is not correct just shows sorta what Im looking for. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Picture or Video 396.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	93.8 KB 
ID:	103351
    For a street bike, especially a chop, my advice is ditch the Amals, and buy or find a Sudco single Mikuni kit. 2>1 manifold and a round slide VM Mikuni. The flat slide JRC-PKWs are good as well.

    The Mikuni is like a Holly 4 barrell for V8s. Infinitely adjustable and tuneable. However some people want simple so the flatslide JRC-PKWs are an excellent choice for KISS-Keep It Simple Stupid.

    But the advantage of the single carb are many, Good choke/enrichener setup, no stink finger, less tuning and adjustments (No balancing needed) as well as a nice boost in power on the lower end. It favors low end torque. Dual carbs only start to shine over 4000 rpm and really dont come on strong until 5500-6000 rpm and no one with any brains revs a 50 yr old British bike that high with stock internals. Choppers are not that kinda ride.

    The Webco splayed ports are fun period parts, some other places made stuff like that too,, but rare as hell,, sometimes someone makes a batch and theres a guy making dual carb kits for preunit Triumphs but you dont see that stuff often.

  17. #17

    Default

    Im thinkingabout making a set I can buy some stainless steel ones and I was talking with this other guy that did it and just welded them up so the flange sets correct so you can run the carbs upright. I see alot of these made on old school choppers using the same carbs I have. For now I will just run what I have they are pretty close now and I think once I get the spacer and o-ring in place going be ok I hope LOL If not may do the mikunki setup. Im doing 4 bikes right now and this is just a project to just try to get moving and a ride here and there. I got my 71 Ironhead chop I drive around a good bit. The 185 is real close to being ready and thats going be a fun ride I have had a few on/road bikes and sold them going hang on to this one the 73 I may sell the 74 not sure yet I will attach photo of the 73 take care thanks again.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	95821222_604285743506322_1729539757655982080_n.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	155.1 KB 
ID:	103368

Share This



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in