What wire can I use on repop castings?

[Scoobydude]

I have the v twin sidecar castings 51-0523, buy I'm not sure if I can use er70s-6 mig wire on it. Was looking around on the website and didn't see anything. Ive got some axle plates from HCI and those I know I can use mig wire, but I saw that VCP asks for their loops to be welded with nickel rod. Forgot to call them yesterday when they were open...

[West7]

I have the v twin sidecar castings 51-0523, buy I'm not sure if I can use er70s-6 mig wire on it. Was looking around on the website and didn't see anything. Ive got some axle plates from HCI and those I know I can use mig wire, but I saw that VCP asks for their loops to be welded with nickel rod. Forgot to call them yesterday when they were open...

Do you just have a mig welder?

Harris super missile is great for welding mystery metal like that but it only comes in tig filler and arc electrodes.

[farmall]

This stuff works great on cast iron:

http://www.crownalloys.com/TechSheet/CAST_IRON_ROYAL_44-30_WITH_New_Warning_(White)_PWP.pdf

My professional machinistbros (they're machine builders and also repair vintage, expensive to replace industrial shit like meat grinders) use it often after I turned them onto it. I found it via aametalmasters welding forum threads. It even works welding exhaust manifold on the engine. I need an excuse to buy a personal roll but that ain't happened yet. You can find a variety of threads on it in welding forums.

Harris super missile is great for welding mystery metal like that but it only comes in tig filler and arc electrodes.

I need to play with that, too. That and some of the Messer fillers are famous.

[West7]

This stuff works great on cast iron:

http://www.crownalloys.com/TechSheet/CAST_IRON_ROYAL_44-30_WITH_New_Warning_(White)_PWP.pdf

My professional machinistbros (they're machine builders and also repair vintage, expensive to replace industrial shit like meat grinders) use it often after I turned them onto it. I found it via aametalmasters welding forum threads. It even works welding exhaust manifold on the engine. I need an excuse to buy a personal roll but that ain't happened yet. You can find a variety of threads on it in welding forums.


I need to play with that, too. That and some of the Messer fillers are famous.

I need to try some of that. Thanks for posting.

I own a repair focused machine/welding job shop and sometimes have to repair large cast iron housings etc. This will definitely make things easier.

My go to is this electrode from Harris(still American made of the good material not Chinese)
I always have best results preheating to 400 and allowing the weldement to cool slowly by insulating it or putting it in sand. Yes you can get away with not doing it but I've had the best results doing this.

https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Welding/Cast-Iron/NIC-L-Weld-99-Electrodes.aspx

[Guest]

are you sure it is cast iron ?.... I thought the castings were cast Steel,... very different welding mediums. & need different welding wire/rods/fillers.....

[pan620]

Yes I think you are right, are they not steel forgings, not castings?

[DustyDave]

It's terribley important to know what you are welding! If you can't contact the mfgr do a spark test. I can't post a link from this device so you will have to do your own Google.
Dusty

[Scoobydude]

I remember reading something the other day on how cast iron would be horrible for any motorcycle parts, due to the brittleness. I also thought that pure nickle rod was only for cast iron, but that's what the vcp website says, even tho mine are v-twin. Thanks for the recommendations, and as of now I only have an arc and mig welder.

[Scoobydude]

Also, does anybody preheat these castings for whatever reason? I wasn't planning on it, but I haven't worked with any castings other than small repairs on large cast iron things

[farmall]

The composition of the casting may be unknown to the seller.

A filler that can do steel to cast iron etc would be the ticket as I doubt the seller knows what they were cast from and covering all bases solves the problem. If the filler is "material agnostic" you're covered. The Crown will do steel to cast iron and Harris are famous for it.

https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Welding/Maintenance-and-Repair/Super-Missileweld.aspx

When in doubt find the filler mfrs data sheets as they're all online for anything remotely recent.

You can know exactly whats in a mystery part if you have an industrial recycler nearby (if they're still open for business) as they usually have XRF handheld analyzers but the world got along fine with spark tests since the 1800s at least.

American Welding Society thread:

https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7922

I tell from the sparks, and you need to weld cast with a nickel rod. It takes lots of pratice not to get pin holes in cast when welding. Go to your scrap yard and find some for pratice.
Spark testing is a method of determining the general classification of ferrous materials. Normally it entails taking a piece of metal, usually scrap, and applying it to a grinding wheel in order to observe the sparks emitted.
Wrought iron sparks flow out in straight lines. The tails of the sparks widen out near the end, similar to a leaf.
Mild steel sparks are similar to wrought iron's, except they will have tiny forks and their lengths will vary more. The sparks will be white in color.
Medium-carbon steel
This steel has more forking than mild steel and a wide variety of spark lengths, with more near the grinding wheel.
High-carbon steel has a bushy spark pattern (lots of forking) that starts at the grinding wheel. The sparks are not so bright as the medium-carbon steel ones.
Manganese steel has medium length sparks that fork twice before ending.
High-speed steel has a faint red spark that sparks at the tip.
300-series stainless steel
These sparks are not so dense as the carbon steel sparks, do not fork, and are orange to straw in color.
310-series stainless steel
These sparks are much shorter and thinner than the 300-series sparks. They are red to orange in color and do not fork.
400-series sparks are similar to 300-series sparks, but are slightly longer and have forks at the ends of the sparks.
Cast iron has very short sparks that begin at the grinding wheel.
Nickel and cobalt high-temperature alloys
These sparks are thin and very short, they are dark red in color, and do not fork.

https://www.weldingweb.com/forum/general-weldingweb-forums/general-welding-questions/43602-how-to-tell-the-difference-cast-steel-or-iron

Comparison to known scrap is an easy way to get a visual.

Also, does anybody preheat these castings for whatever reason? I wasn't planning on it, but I haven't worked with any castings other than small repairs on large cast iron things

Can't hurt and often makes for a smoother weld.

Practice on scrap to set your amps. The workpiece is not a test piece!

[DustyDave]

"I remember reading something the other day on how cast iron would be horrible for any motorcycle parts, due to the brittleness. "
Harley sure built lots of steering heads axle plates and frame connectors out of cast iron. Far as I know Indian was the only major manufacturer to use cast steel. Nothing wrong with cast iron if the part is well designed.
It's Worth the trouble to learn to identify what you are welding. Then choose the right rod band aide rods are ok for an emergency but are never as good as knowing what you are welding and chosing the right filler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D094eBa4S7c

Dusty

[Guest]

one way to tell if it is cast iron is to drill a small hole in it, or file it,..... if cast iron it will produce a powdered swarf & if steel you will get regular swarf coils coming off the drill..... you only need funny heat cycles pre & post welding if it is cast iron,.... if a V-Twin mfg frame it will be made from old bottle caps, tin cans & rust,....

[Scoobydude]

Really? I thought all oem harley "castings" were forged steel?

[farmall]

An OT post for the weldors:
My bro has a couple Victors needing kits and couldn't find my other fixture so I threw this together. (Paint is for contrast since the scrap was ugly.) It makes removing stuck caps MUCH easier. If your regulator blowoff valve pops, your seat is done but kits are cheap (I buy those online) and take a few minutes to install. Pipe weldors etc often install kits in the field to reduce downtime and the Victor design makes it easy. I fix my own and bros (that mismatched gauge ain't mine but there's no functional downside) and after scoring a bin of ~40 regs and flowmeters at auction for less then scrap I have a lifetime supply. New offshore flowmeters are close to a kit in price but I like the Victor design. I refuse to run offshore fuel and oxygen regulators and cutting torches (unless they're legit like Koike) and scrap the fuckers because I won't resell them as the cutting heads are prone to mixer fires and the seals are usually low grade. (I have US torches from the teens onward on their original seals that pass inert gas pressure tests way above operating pressure.)

Work per factory tech data and clean anything needing that to "oxygen safe" standards if doing oxygen regulators and if you don't know what those are, send the oxy regs off. The overhaul outfits have bulk cleaning options to make 'em safe and pretty.

Fuel gas and shielding gas regs are not a big deal but if in doubt about oxygen, send yours off because particle impact ignition ain't a joke.

Example parts breakdown:

https://www.gasandsupply.com/docs/VIC_DocLib_2305_56-0610%20SR%20450%20Series%20Regulator.pdf

if a V-Twin mfg frame it will be made from old bottle caps, tin cans & rust,....

Depends on the foundry but that assertion is testable (XRF gun) and what you're really saying is "I don't like them". That's fine but metallurgy is a place for precision not emotion. For example there are many thousands of decent iron castings from Asia including those on my older Taiwanese belt drive lathe and its herd of Enco brethren. They aren't Monarchs but they turn out work to spec and spec is what matters.

[Scoobydude]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php%3ft=172209&amp=1

Someone in here also agrees with the forgings idea, I couldn't get the full article cause that page costs you sign up?.. anyone on that site, than can screen shot that Irish rich article?