CHOP CULT HOME
Email Password
Search
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default newly finished build and not starting

    just finished up my 72 shovel build and I followed the below wiring diagram to a T minus the horn. battery is fully charged, headlight and brake are getting power just fine, and regulator is a new drag specialties. Only thing that isn't new is the stator. what's best way to check if the stator is bad?

    All of that aside, any other ideas here?

    side info: I'm running brake light, Headlight, brake switch, and then the charging system. pretty simple setup. Ignition is points.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	de1bc07515d1c0cdfa803e3197db9d8e.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	67.7 KB 
ID:	101033
    Last edited by firstripholdmybeer; 03-18-2020 at 9:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,401

    Default Recheck

    Check it all again, pimple shovels are not my forte. good luck........
    Quote Originally Posted by firstripholdmybeer View Post
    just finished up my 72 shovel build and I followed the below wiring diagram to a T minus the horn. battery is fully charged, headlight and brake are getting power just fine, and regulator is a new drag specialties. Only thing that isn't new is the stator. what's best way to check if the stator is bad?

    All of that aside, any other ideas here?

    side info: I'm running brake light, Headlight, brake switch, and then the charging system. pretty simple setup. Ignition is points.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	de1bc07515d1c0cdfa803e3197db9d8e.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	67.7 KB 
ID:	101033

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1,981

    Default

    Test the coil by pulling a plug, make sure the points are in an open position, give it power and then use a screwdriver to short across the open points, if you have a spark that is one less thing to worry about.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    121

    Default

    stator has nothing to do with not starting, got spark?

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,581

    Default

    The best way to check a stator is with a 110V test light. You will have to make one, of course, and be careful using it. On a two post stator, neither post should show continuity to ground (the motor case). There should be continuity between the posts. Why 110V? Because the winding insulation can leak current to ground under load, and the stator can operate at 60V AC or more at high rpm. A volt ohm meter does not test at high enough voltage to detect this.

    If the stator passes the open and ground test, you can test the output roughly by hooking an incandescent drop light to it. Light should glow with motor idling and get brighter with revs.

    BUT, none of that matters as far as your no-start problem is concerned. The alternator is divorced from the wiring harness by a diode in the regulator, so if the regulator is working, nothing happens from the alternator until you have some revs.

    If the bike won't start, do this rough check:
    Pull the plugs, hook the wires up, and lay them on the heads. Kick the motor over and look for a good spark at both plugs. Dim shade helps, you may not see a spark in bright sun. With a wasted spark system, both plugs must be grounded to get a spark, so treat them the same. (They are at each end of the secondary winding. )

    No spark, check the points and maybe replace the condenser, even if it is new. If you have spark, check your timing.

    As far as the fuel system goes, if you slosh some gas into the carb throat, the motor should start and run if the ignition is good, no matter the carb or fuel system condition. Fire is a danger from this test.

    Good luck,
    Jim

  6. #6
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    so not starting...got spark? with the key on and points closed,open the points manually,plugs should spark...got spark? can always do a simple plug swap...just' cause they're new,don't mean they're good.
    got power to coil? is the timing set correctly? what about the points gap at both lobes - correct and the same?
    what about a condenser...new? swap and re-check,but should not be a factor a kickover speed.
    what type of plug wires and caps?
    are valves set correctly? got compression?
    got gas? got any intake leaks?
    carb set at standard settings and confirmed? which carb ya got? cleaned properly with all passages clear and correct needles and jets?
    what other info can ya share so we don't gotta guess?

    I like to have the ignition power at key switch to be the only connection at that point; the stop switch can go to the accessories with the other lights.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    so not starting...got spark? with the key on and points closed,open the points manually,plugs should spark...got spark? can always do a simple plug swap...just' cause they're new,don't mean they're good.
    got power to coil? is the timing set correctly? what about the points gap at both lobes - correct and the same?
    what about a condenser...new? swap and re-check,but should not be a factor a kickover speed.
    what type of plug wires and caps?
    are valves set correctly? got compression?
    got gas? got any intake leaks?
    carb set at standard settings and confirmed? which carb ya got? cleaned properly with all passages clear and correct needles and jets?
    what other info can ya share so we don't gotta guess?

    I like to have the ignition power at key switch to be the only connection at that point; the stop switch can go to the accessories with the other lights.
    Agree, except for one point.

    A bad condenser will cause hard starting or no start.

    Jim

  8. #8
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    okay,my experience has been rough idle and major breakup at load...verify by excessive arcing at points while running.

  9. #9
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    201

    Default

    In addition to all of the above, what's your compression after the fresh rebuild? Leakdown test?

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Agree, except for one point.

    A bad condenser will cause hard starting or no start.

    Jim
    and look yellow

  11. #11
    Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    97

    Default

    How exactly are you starting it and what happens? I’m assuming kick starting since you’re using that diagram. No signs of life at all?

  12. #12
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    after a good amount of frustration I think I've found a obvious culprit. the stator has a two pin where I need a 4 pin. my old regulator was two pin ( the one that came with the motor). my new regulator is a 4 pin 15 amp and some how my dumbass didn't notice or just assumed I only needed the 2 that had fit properly out of the 4 on the plug. so, I've order a new stator with a 4 pin male and I don't see why that count do the trick. so for wasting everyones time, I'm a idiot

  13. #13
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    so, I've order a new stator with a 4 pin male and I don't see why that count do the trick.
    Stator is part of the charging circuit, not ignition circuit.
    Disconnect the stator/regulator wire,ensure battery is fully charged,go through all steps identified by all above,then start it.

    Again,stator rotor,rectifier,regulator (and battery) is part of the charging system...

    you can start your bike without a charging system...

    ensure battery fully charged, points set, timing set, advancer mechanism functioning properly, spark at plugs, wiring correct, grounds fully grounded,
    carb ready, intake confirmed to be sealed,compression is measured and confirmed good, valves adjusted, start it.

  14. #14
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pan620 View Post
    stator has nothing to do with not starting, got spark?
    no, no spark. going to have to try what Doom Buggy suggested.

  15. #15
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    thans for all the responses people. Trinortchopz and Jim, I'm going to start doing some process of elimination today from what you guys have laid out. I'm positive the timing is going and the points have sparked when I was adjusting it and forgot to turn the battery off. I'll start with the ignition coil and go from there.

  16. #16
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    ...ensure battery fully charged, points set, timing set, advancer mechanism functioning properly, spark at plugs, wiring correct, grounds fully grounded,
    carb ready, intake confirmed to be sealed,compression is measured and confirmed good, valves adjusted, start it.
    what advancing mechanism are you referring to?

    I am getting spark in both plugs and I just reset the points with TDC. I've read a variety of things for the correct TDC indicator. My motor is a 72 and I went off the dot that sits low from center. I felt through the front plug hole and the piston is right there.

  17. #17
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TriNortchopz View Post
    so not starting...got spark? with the key on and points closed,open the points manually,plugs should spark...got spark? can always do a simple plug swap...just' cause they're new,don't mean they're good.
    got power to coil? is the timing set correctly? what about the points gap at both lobes - correct and the same?
    what about a condenser...new? swap and re-check,but should not be a factor a kickover speed.
    what type of plug wires and caps?
    are valves set correctly? got compression?
    got gas? got any intake leaks?
    carb set at standard settings and confirmed? which carb ya got? cleaned properly with all passages clear and correct needles and jets?
    what other info can ya share so we don't gotta guess?

    I like to have the ignition power at key switch to be the only connection at that point; the stop switch can go to the accessories with the other lights.
    new points and condensor and just confirmed I have spark. my plugs are NGK and wires came as a kit from Lowbrow.

    the carb is a super E and is very clean inside. I have set it to S&S's basic setup recommendation for startup.

    the bike isn't even trying to start so I'm not to concerned about proper jets yet.

    it could be my ignition switch is wired weird, but it seems straight forward to me and seems like everything has power. I'll post a picture of it below. it's a momentary switch (like a car has) that can be used with a starter. I have my battery plugged up to the "B" terminal and then Lights and ignition plugged up to terminal "A".

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	s-l1600.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	28.8 KB 
ID:	101154
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	hhhh.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	30.6 KB 
ID:	101155


    https://www.ebay.com/p/681385535?iid...yABEgIdm_D_BwE

  18. #18
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    523

    Default

    when you fitted the points, did you either wash them with thinners or file the points faces with a points file ?...
    I only ask because in days of old, & still with some high end points, the contacts were coated in a sort of thin oily lacquer
    coating to preserve them from corrosion etc while in storage, I recently has a set of accel points that were dead until I washed them in thinners then they worked great...….. worth a look if ya cant find why it wont spark....

  19. #19
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tzienlee View Post
    when you fitted the points, did you either wash them with thinners or file the points faces with a points file ?...
    I only ask because in days of old, & still with some high end points, the contacts were coated in a sort of thin oily lacquer
    coating to preserve them from corrosion etc while in storage, I recently has a set of accel points that were dead until I washed them in thinners then they worked great...….. worth a look if ya cant find why it wont spark....
    I'll give that a try, but I think they're functioning since the plugs are sparking. Ive also seen the point spark when I was messing with it while the battery was on.

  20. #20
    Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firstripholdmybeer View Post
    what advancing mechanism are you referring to?

    I am getting spark in both plugs and I just reset the points with TDC. I've read a variety of things for the correct TDC indicator. My motor is a 72 and I went off the dot that sits low from center. I felt through the front plug hole and the piston is right there.
    If you are setting the timing at TDC then you will not get it to run. Timing should be set at 35 Deg BEFORE TDC. Just something to double-check. Some of these motors may have different flywheels installed and different timing marks. The 35 deg advance mark should be a straight line, the off center hole is not the timing mark you should be using. Make sure that the straight line comes into the timing window before the front piston gets to TDC.

    Just something to check.

    Good luck with it.

Share This



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in