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  1. #1

    Default Pnp grider help ?

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ID:	100734 Got a new stem back from a friend old was beat kinda and got this extra space on the stem that isn't covered when I install it.could I just put a dust shield over and make a spacer for the empty spot, would I be good ?

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    Spacers (can be one on top and one below) needs to be the right length for the upper and lower linkages to be parallel - upper and lower pivot point on the leg the same distance apart as the pivot points on the top and bottom tree.

    There should be no threads of the neck post inside the center hole of the top tree...that fit should be size on size...and the fit of the neck post in the bottom tree should be a press fit.

    I modified mine to be setup like a springer, with a top nut (below the top tree) to adjust the bearing tension, and a crown nut on top of the upper tree to clamp it all together...each nut has spigots that are a nice tight fit inside the re-bored center hole; like this:

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    original assembly drawing for P&P girder:
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    original installation drawing for P&P girder:
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    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 03-08-2020 at 12:37 AM. Reason: installation

  3. #3

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    Okay so If I got what your saying is that I get the measurements for it and spit it in two for the top and bottom(spacer) and add those nuts below the top tree ?

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    Okay so If I got what your saying is that I get the measurements for it and spit it in two for the top and bottom(spacer) and add those nuts below the top tree ?
    Can do that, but take into consideration the difference in measurements between the trees with the links parallel (same as measurement of center-to-center of the pivot points on legs) and the measurement over the installed bearings with dust caps.

    The original installation instructions ^^^ say a 3/4" spacer on the bottom and a 1/2" spacer on the top, with Harley 74 referenced.
    How much is the difference?
    Also, will you be running fork stops? if so determine if you need the lower tree close to the bottom of the frame neck.

    Do you have the right bearing cups installed in the frame neck?

    Are you using tapered roller bearings?

    Do the bearings fit properly on the neck post...the lower bearing should be a light interference fit (press or tap on...play can be eliminated on that one with green bearing retaining compound, like Loctite 609) while the upper bearing fit should be a size-on-size sliding fit, and be in the right location on the machined part of the neck post.

    How is the fit of the neck post in the upper tree? - any slop is too much clearance.
    Mine had been beat because the threaded portion of the post was in there, and sloppy, so beat both the threads of the post and the hole, which is part of the reason I decided to set it up like a springer with spigotted top nut and crown nut, like done in the Chopper Builder's Handbook - Girder Build.

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    Look at this design; on this neckpost, it is setup like a typical glide frontend, with a bearing adjustment (top) nut, and the top tree fits onto the machined part of the shaft and held down with a bolt (crown nut)
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    Girders been made and run for decades with just the one top nut; my Durfee girder has a set screw in the side of the top nut to lock it when tight...a jam nut with the crown nut is another option to make sure it doesn't loosen off - then there is always red threadlocker too.

    I use a large adjustable wrench fitted onto the top tree to align the top tree with the neck post during assembly.
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 03-08-2020 at 1:07 AM. Reason: pics

  5. #5

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    Yes I changed out the neck cups a while back just was missing the stem to install it, got the right bearings to. won't be using fork stop. When I put the fork on everything seem to fit in place to my knowledge. And your fork are different from mine so I wouldn't be able to do that setup or could I ?

  6. #6

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    Just I got that extra space just have to find those nuts you told me about and the spacer and figure it out with your info

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    how is your girder different...trees in that small pic you shared look the same...how about a couple more pics; one a bit further away,then one of full length...looks like a P&P with original shock

    Get your measurements to determine what the difference in the space is, add your spacers - can be top and bottom, and re-read what I shared above...a second nut below the top tree is nice to have,but not needed as noted. most important is the bearing fits on the neck and the neckpost in the top hole,while getting the upper and lower linkages parallel.

  8. #8

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ID:	100784 wait you're right sorry I had a brain fart for a quick second. The bottom of my stem won't reach the outside for a bottom crown nut. Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9

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    Any tips on how to fix that broken pivot point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose9696 View Post
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    Man those close up pics are no help....... Take two steps back............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose9696 View Post
    Any tips on how to fix that broken pivot point
    It depends on where it's broken........ NO close up pics please...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose9696 View Post
    Any tips on how to fix that broken pivot point
    That's just a grease nipple that broke off. Get a square e-z out, hammer the right sized one in, and twist it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose9696 View Post
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    Just went and measured mine; between the centers of the upper and lower pivot points is 8 1/2" (measured with a tape measure)...the tree pivots are the same...I could pull the legs and linkages and bolt the legs onto the tree shafts to make it a rigid frontend...same distance apart.

    I measured from the top of the lower tree to the bottom of the upper tree = 7 1/2". my top nut is about 3/8" thick, the rest of the spacer is at the bottom of the neck.

    Hope that helps with your measuring.

    EDIT: Can you tighten down the crown nut to get the tree pivot point centers the same distance as the leg pivots (8 1/2")...even if you have to use a spacer above the tree in case you run out of threads on the neckpost...then you can measure the gap, and split it for spacers, as you see fits best for your machine.
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 03-08-2020 at 10:25 PM. Reason: gap

  15. #15

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    First pic is lower part of the upper tree to the lower tree i got 8" 1/8
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    I got 9" 1/8
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg  

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    okay, good to see.

    That last pic of the measurement of the pivot points on the legs; looks like 8 3/4". try to get the pivot points between the upper and lower trees the same, regardless of the measurement.
    Then measure the gap between the bottom of the upper tree and the upper bearing...that is the gap you need to fill with the spacers.
    Don't forget the upper and lower dustcaps in your measurements.
    split the spacers between the top and the bottom.
    are the threads long enough on top of the neckpost?
    Make a drawing with all your measurements for reference, today and for future.
    do you have a set of calipers for measuring? a set of digital calipers can be bought for less than $30, a great investment for any bike building or customizing...
    one quick example:
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    https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-6-di...y-caliper-2852
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 03-09-2020 at 8:13 PM. Reason: spelling

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose9696 View Post
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    Are those front ends really supposed to fit like that?????? It looks like they are made for a totally different bike........

    That's not a smart ass question I'm serious...............

    If they are can I ask why????

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    Gonna guess it is an Ironhead,but Goose hasn't said...his other post was how to remove an Ironhead clutch basket...so just guessin'.

    As noted above, the original installation instructions refer to installing on a 74, with a 3/4" spacer on the bottom, and a 1/2" spacer on top. So, 1 1/4" gap for 74.

    Based on bearing cup conversions for Ironheads with thicker cups, gonna say the Ironhead neck is shorter than BT...the few forums where I LOOKED FOR LENGTH, NOBODY ANSWERS THE LENGTH QUESTION AND JUST TALKS ABOUT DIAMETER...WHICH HAS BEEN DISCUSSED MANY TIMES HERE ON CC; damn, caps locked on, was not yelling, eating and typing at the same time...not gonna re-type; this is a pic to a length question:

    damn, not valid photo...

    so I am wondering, what is the neck length on an Ironhead - Goose? anyone? looks like 3 15/16" from pics above...
    how does length of Sportster neck compare to BT?

    Conversion kit says this:
    Biker's Choice - Ironhead Conversion Fork Cup Set fits '57 - '78 Sportster Frame
    Billet machined dust shields included are machined as spacers to bring the neck to the same length as a big twin neck
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    BT neck:
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    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 03-10-2020 at 5:37 PM. Reason: kit info

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    Thanks Tri, That makes sense kinda what I was thinking....... I had a front end years ago that fit like that but I swapped out the stem and made it fit correctly.........

    Thank you,

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    Ya, Goose's neck is short, less than 4", compared to a BT at 6 1/8" according to the Merch drawing above. ..which is the same as the neck on my aftermarket rigid frame, but I got bearing seats inside the neck, kinda like this other Merch drawing of a HD neck:

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    To make it fit, some options include machining thicker bearing cups to be part spacer, just use thick spacers, or, cut it off and weld a BT neck on there, which could be raked at the same time if needed...remember the P&P girders have adjustable built-in rake of zero or 10 degrees...that one is currently at zero rake.

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