CHOP CULT HOME
Email Password
Search
Page 2 of 2 First 12
  1. #21
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    895

    Default

    It would be an interesting experiment.. I'm of the opinion you could probably sell a bunch of the original Super Beetles today, but it is unprovable scientifically.

    Would it replace current automotive tech, generally? It could not and everyone knows it.

    But is there a market for a technologically inferior car that is simple, cheap, fun and a throwback in almost every way? I'd buy one, but that is strictly anecdotal. There's no empirical case to be made either. The closest you could probably get is polling. Even that is iffy, because people say one thing and do another when their own money is being spent.

    I do know there's a tremendous interest in off road vehicles now, even by people who don't need them. The Gators and the quads, those Razor like things. Not all are technological marvels. Lot of inferior boats and watercraft out there too, and people love them.

    Is there room for a throwback motorcycle or car? We'll never know the answer because fedgov wouldn't permit such an experiment, regardless. US manufacturers probably wouldn't be too thrilled with it either. I think that is a shame.

  2. #22
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    895

    Default

    PS: I speak to many people who loathe buying a new truck, even though they need one.. and know they will eventually have to go do it. (Kind of an AG area here. Lot of trucks.)

    They're angry. They don't need or want all the new stuff, or the price tag. What they want is for their old one to just last forever, but that can't happen.

    But again, that is merely anecdotal.

  3. #23
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    12,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by confab View Post

    What they want is for their old one to just last forever, but that can't happen.
    Say what .. ?!?!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture R-100.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	59.5 KB 
ID:	100863

  4. #24
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    Say what .. ?!?!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture R-100.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	59.5 KB 
ID:	100863
    Someone CPR'ed that one back nicely..

  5. #25
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    12,808

    Default

    That someone would be me ...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IH Dash.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	292.8 KB 
ID:	100864

    75 1/2 Ton GMC 4X4 frame, 400 SBC bored .030" over (406 CI now) on a 517 four bolt main block, H-D 400 THM built to the gills, squeeze column shift on a cut down Caddy column (Also by me) 3/4 ton 14 bolt corporation rear end ect ...
    Last edited by Dragstews; 03-12-2020 at 3:08 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    895

    Default

    Nice ride.. I like to see the old ones brought back.

  7. #27
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    9,466

    Default

    If the original Beetles were desired, demand would have maintained global production where pollution was not an issue. That did not happen. Neither did any notable mass desire to restore them. In other news ya can still buy every part for a T Model Ford but the public ain't howling for their return.

    Outside its classic styling the Beetle was a completely inferior vehicle to the A1 Golf/Rabbit/Caddy etc. The flat four needed much more frequent overhauls while the inline four (brilliantly designed to be a diesel, a carbed gasser, and a Bosch CIS mechanical injected gasser with the swap of a few components!) routinely went several hundred thousand miles without an overhaul. Of course the Beetle was so crosswind sensitive it was dangerous in bad weather and had no frontal crash protection worth mentioning. It was cute. It was simple. It was slow. The heating system was utter shit. It was a perfectly good 1930s automobile... I've owned both and worked on many more. (I replaced mine with useful trucks.) The A1 was a huge success and a fine economical automobile but the market tired of it too as technology improved.

    It's easy to measure public opinion, just follow their money!
    New vehicles compete against used vehicles. Buyers want the shiny so they buy used "luxury" vehicles before they'll buy a new spartan minimalist ride. Ever wonder why expensive new trucks fly off the lots? I don't. I used to sell their used relatives which are popular for the same reasons.

    The top selling US vehicle remains the F-150 with zero fucks given about Beetles. Ford could afford to shitcan passenger car lines while putting truck profits into R&D for their future BEV offerings. Gasoline is cheap (and now KSA is dumping which complements fracking) so there's no reason for those inclined to loaded trucks not to buy them. These fucktillions of F-150s are getting serviced no matter how much luddites who stopped learning fuel systems in 1980 might snivel, and plenty of home mechanics (self very much included) aren't bothered by working on them. Meanwhile new Beetle (a better car then the first Beetle and originally quite popular) sales went into the shitter. The public voted. End of story.

    There are plenty of throwback motorcycles. In the US they're called Harleys. They're simple, easy to work on and heavily supported.
    Long term Jap models HD owners ignore have had very, very long production runs. Yamaha SR400 and the Suzuki DRZ 400 series are successful throwbacks which survived from the time they were new. So is the retro Hinckley Triumph twin line. Royal Enfield are the ultimate throwback but they're not taking over the US market because Americans are rich and have faster choices.

    Did I miss anything? Motor history is big fun and focusing on facts makes it more interesting than just being mindlessly nostalgic.

    Everyone wanting an old ride can restore one or pay someone else. There is no barrier. There is no shortage of donors except for a few exotics. What ain't happening is public demand for more than the STYLING of times past. Harley, Triumph, Indian and Enfield profit nicely off that.

  8. #28
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    Say what .. ?!?!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture R-100.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	59.5 KB 
ID:	100863
    Give me that truck.
    Fuck all these new shitboxes
    In my eyes a puckup is a workingman's truck.
    All this newshit fucking sucks. Just like Harley Davidson, they suck

  9. #29
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Davestune View Post
    Give me that truck.
    Fuck all these new shitboxes
    In my eyes a puckup is a workingman's truck.
    All this newshit fucking sucks. Just like Harley Davidson, they suck
    [/I]
    I want that truck too. BTW-there ain't no gravity , the whole world sucks

  10. #30
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    895

    Default

    The air cooled Beetle engine was inferior to current offerings, but it was produced till 2006 anyway.. Would it have continued beyond that point without mandates? Who knows?

    I know that consumers have a choice of what is presented to them, and what is presented to them is what car makers are permitted to offer in a particular market. Economies of scale being what they are, they will refine offerings to save cost and still meet applicable mandates. This may result in inferior offerings. (Think California Emissions.)

    It isn't just people voting with their dollars.

    One of the biggest examples I can think of was right here in truck country. Nobody I know or have ever spoken with wanted expensive, consumable, parts in the exhaust of their new diesel truck that had to be fed a special fluid to survive. Perhaps this would have been popular in some urban environments? Perhaps not? But the option was unavailable because of mandates.

    I also never met a single person who wanted the Ford 6.0 diesel in their new truck. But they took it because the 7.3 it replaced was NLA because of.. Mandates..

    Seemingly "inferior" vehicles sell all the time, and many of them sell quite well. Well enough to sustain production, anyway. For example: Simpler, base model, Kia and Hyundai vehicles look quite inferior compared to other vehicles.. But people choose them anyway.

    I'm not saying the VW Beetle would make people throw their Cadillac in the trash if they were reintroduced tomorrow.. But it is also true that consumer sentiment doesn't matter. If a majority of consumers legitimately wanted a 50's Panhead to ride around? The closest thing Harley could do is what VW did and produce a facsimile.
    Last edited by confab; 03-13-2020 at 8:30 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    2,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Davestune View Post
    Give me that truck.
    Fuck all these new shitboxes
    In my eyes a puckup is a workingman's truck.
    All this newshit fucking sucks. Just like Harley Davidson, they suck
    While I love old trucks, I have to say my Sierra is a real joy to drive. We have had this one for 5 months now and I already have around 12,000 miles on it. On the highway it is quiet and the 8 speed tranny gives me around 21 mpg if I am not loaded down or towing anything ( around town I am lucky to get 12 mpg, but then I have a lead foot ). While in Arizona I had a blast off road in the desert, it just dug in and ran like a raped ape.

    But looking under the hood I am guessing I will be able to do basic maintenance and brake jobs, but not too much more. Besides I have the Panhead to wrench on, lol.

  12. #32
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Well put. Indian figured out (after the ugly Polaris disaster, styling killed that brand) they need to look cool and have over 100hp not to suck.
    .
    If y'all want to know what talking out of your ass looks like, read no further. What kind of mushroom you chewing on, old man? This kind of authoritative yet completely wrong bullshit is why idiots feel so empowered these days. Thank you for reminding all of us never to listen to you. (Polaris's "disaster" has to be among the most successful relaunches of a brand since Bloor - and don't kid, as much as the Steves consolidated the brand post-Gilroy, they weren't sinking the dollars for a new platform like Polaris did.)
    Last edited by MadRiverMoCo; 03-13-2020 at 1:29 PM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRiverMoCo View Post
    If y'all want to know what talking out of your ass looks like, read no further. What kind of mushroom you chewing on, old man? This kind of authoritative yet completely wrong bullshit is why idiots feel so empowered these days. Thank you for reminding all of us never to listen to you. (Polaris's "disaster" has to be among the most successful relaunches of a brand since Bloor - and don't kid, as much as the Steves consolidated the brand post-Gilroy, they weren't sinking the dollars for a new platform like Polaris did.)
    I thought Farmall was referring to Victory being the disaster?

  14. #34
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    9,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
    I thought Farmall was referring to Victory being the disaster?
    I was. That's why it went away. The public rejected it.

    after the ugly Polaris disaster, styling killed that brand
    The Indian styling is the solution. OCC-style boomerchoppers were a reaction to the Honda Shadow-looking early Victories. What's hilarious is so many owners were surprise Polaris closed Victory. After the recession there wasn't enough surplus money to fund niche companies whose whole business model relied on insufficient Harleys.

    As we eventually enter the next recession (inevitable anyway with or without Kung Flu) it will be even more difficult for niche makes to survive but Polaris positioned Indian well. What must never be forgotten is motorcycling in the US is mostly for old men and Indian like anyone else are vulnerable to events which cause those old men to spend cautiously. The economy doesn't have to crater to scare them into keeping their spare change liquid. I doubt kung flu will kill enough Americans to matter vs the shitload who die of the usual causes but people are simple creatures. A lot of them will (as they should) invest in useful things like prepping before toys. (Most of us are mechanics whose lifestyle is inherently prepped, but mechanics are a minority of bike buyers.)

    The motorcycling press and biker community mostly live in a bubble and often don't study their hobby and toys in context with the rest of the world. The global market crash just vaporized billions in luxury toy money worldwide and in the US. It hit so fast that much of the damage is yet to happen. A rebound won't quickly replace money saved over time and our service-based economy is getting hammered.
    Last edited by farmall; 03-14-2020 at 8:56 AM.

  15. #35
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    2,119

    Default

    Supply chain disruptions won't be unwound for a year or more. That has more real implications than the Wu Flu. And explains the market collapse better than the flu problem.

    Jim

  16. #36
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    9,466

    Default

    Bonus is makers just learned they need to diversify since nowhere is safe (the famous Spanish flu apparantly began in the US).

    Fuck Beijing. Paying them our money to build the PLA and PLAN we spend hundreds of billions in on our Pacific Fleet and other military units to contain has always been questionable.

  17. #37
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    792

    Default

    You guys ever hear of the DeLorean Motor Company?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLore...ompany_(Texas)

  18. #38
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    12,808

    Default


  19. #39
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatchet54 View Post
    You guys ever hear of the DeLorean Motor Company?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLore...ompany_(Texas)
    Any color you want, as long as it's gray...

Share This



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in