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  1. #1

    Default One dumb question, one slightly less dumb question

    First the dumb question...

    What’s the difference between ignition leads for various model years? I got a pretty vicious shock today touching the ignition lead while the bike was running so I need to get some new ones. I’ve got a 95 FXDL and the stock/SE ones are pretty hard to get hold of now. I could go aftermarket but I just wondered if there’s any actual difference or whether I could just grab some 8mm/10mm leads from any Dyna year?

    The slightly less dumb question, what would be the logical next step to get a bit more power from my bike? It’s got an EV27 cam, Moon air cleaner, 45/190 jets and SE mufflers. It pulls well from standing but the power kinda tails off a bit quick so it would be good to get just a little overall boost.

    Thanks
    Last edited by TeeJayE; 02-14-2020 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeJayE View Post
    First the dumb question...

    What’s the difference between ignition leads for various model years? I got a pretty vicious shock today touching the ignition lead while the bike was running so I need to get some new ones. I’ve got a 95 FXDL and the stock/SE ones are pretty hard to get hold of now. I could go aftermarket but I just wondered if there’s any actual difference or whether I could just grab some 8mm/10mm leads from any Dyna year?

    The slightly less dumb question, what would be the logical next step to get a bit more power from my bike? It’s got an EV27 cam, Moon air cleaner, 45/190 jets and SE mufflers. It pulls well from standing but the power kinda tails off a bit quick so it would be good to get just a little overall boost.

    Thanks
    Plenty of aftermarket options out there. Don't know about standard lead interchangeability.

    Re 2nd question,if nothing in your current set-up is hurting performance, i'd check out a new ignition set up. I've got a dyna 2000i on my 85 Evo FXR . Used to be that you could buy a factory SE module ignition module that had a better ignition advance curve.

  3. #3

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    The twin cam plug wires are different because the connection at the coil is different. So you need wires from the evo era. In aftermarket, you can't beat Taylor wires.

    If you have the stock ignition module, it limits rpm to 5400. As noted above, an aftermarket module will allow for an adjustable rev limit, and your motor should be safe to 6200. If that doesn't get you what you want, more compression and cam will do it.

    Jim

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    I buy custom kits for V8 auto engines and any different plug boots required then make what I want. A bit more fiddling at first but I like having more leads for less money plus spares on hand.

    Since EI can't use solid copper leads the carbon impregnated style are mandatory and they do not age well.

    Spark plug wire are not at all exotic parts but anything for a motorcycle tends to be priced higher. Jegs, Summit etc have kits.

    If you don't want to learn about making leads right now just buy a premade set. I run whatever physically fits. Current gives zero fucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post

    Since EI can't use solid copper leads the carbon impregnated style are mandatory and they do not age well.
    .
    What EI is that? Boyer says use solid copper.

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    I'd forgotten about Boyer (and Pazon) because far more common Harley were under discussion. Those are specifically designed not to require suppression wires (and the tiny few remaining vintage Britbikes aren't much of the motorbike population).

    Stock HD , Accel, Dyna, Ultima etc require suppression wire.

    The vast majority of ignition makers require resistor/suppression core wires due to interference. I WISH they all tolerated copper! The typical impregnated glass fiber trash is a downgrade but anything less than solid copper is electrically inferior. Their are some higher quality suppression wires like Magnecor but the easy was is treat suppression wires as disposable rather than spending for boutique wires.

    From a Pertronix (a famously successful ignition conversion) guy:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-wires.391152/
    We actually don't recommend it with ANY of our Ignitor's, Many guys do it with good results but the reality is the electrical "leakage" of most solid core wires as you guys describe, especially those "Clear Red" ones can wreak havoc on just about any electrical ignition - MSD, PerTronix, Crane, Mallory etc. The problem is all that "noise" floating around can cause a false signal that can short out the Ignitor. It is worse with higher output coils as there is more spark energy to escape.
    You take your chances and live with the consequences.
    ...

    The reason for not recommending Solid Core wires with the Ignitor I has to do with voltage spikes, not EMI. The hall effect can be blown out by large voltage spikes and what seems to happen is that as solid core wires in particular get old they tend to leak voltage even more. When this happens they can seek a ground path that causes a high voltage spike and that can fry the hall effect sensor. It does not happen all the time, but it does happen. We see it predominantly in Industrial applications like Fork Lifts where they Never change the plug wires. We'll get a customer that tells us he has blown a couple of modules and after we tell him to change the plug wires to suppression, we don't get the call anymore.
    It can happen with old crappy suppression wires as well but is much less likely and frequent.
    Taylor and Magnecor are among the makers who use better spiral wound conductors for suppression but those are also not solid copper. They're nice wires though and if you're building a race engine there's no reason not to use race-grade everything. Note that stock high KV automotive systems don't use exotic wires and their systems (back before superior higher voltage COP systems eliminated plug wires) routinely lasted many years. Motorcycles get wet when it rains so moisture obviously affects them more than enclosed engines. Ohms tests check conductors so that's an easy way to eliminate wires that fail but they don't test any other property of a wire. I fine having spares and being able to casually discard older wires very convenient.

    https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm

    Every brand of spiral conductor ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower. Independent tests, performed when there was a frenzy of unsubstantiated claims of horsepower increases from spark plug wires, including a test performed by Circle Track Magazine (see May, 1996 issue) in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.
    My points and magneto bikes all get copper with silver soldered ends when the end uses crimped conductors. I crimp those too but soldering is so easy I'd feel dirty if I didn't do that on plug wires. Soldering the end of a crimped plug wire connector doesn't produce a stiff joint like say a Western Union splice in low voltage wires. Low voltage wires and connector plug pins are typically crimped (from autos to jet fighters) for better flexibility as well as easier fabrication.

    EDIT: Accel make COP for HDs but in that vulnerable spot on an engine I don't see a point except for racing. https://www.jegs.com/p/Accel/Accel-S...47804/10002/-1
    Last edited by farmall; 02-16-2020 at 12:40 PM.

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    Some of what I am getting here, is that solid copper wires may work, albeit with a greater chance of frying the hall effect sensor,
    Therefore the carbon resistor wires are the better choice, even if they do life span out.

    I ask: with the EI and carbon suppressed wires, which I run due to mfr recommendations (which I was never sure why, til now), does the spark plug type play into this scenario?
    Resistor plugs vs non resistor plugs?
    Are copper solid spark plugs non-resistor?

    This thread is interesting.
    Last edited by 10scDust; 02-16-2020 at 11:18 AM.

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    When troubleshooting, I actually had no problems with what I think are carbon impregnated wires with a Boyer so don't understand their solid core requirement.

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    They would logically require the most robust wire their system will tolerate to eliminate possible problems, and everything not stranded copper is inferior to stranded copper. Modest additional resistance shouldn't logically affect an ignition since it already produced enough voltage to jump an air gap filled with fuel/air mixture (fuel is not conductive).

    The ideal conductor would be a solid copper bus bar if there were no other design considerations but it bears reminding vintage motorbikes are crude sloppy things designed to work fine while being crude and sloppy!

    In other news, toilet bowls aren't honed to size because they pass shit and paper just fine with lesser tolerances.

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    The issues won't be limited to Hall Effect Sensors.

    Based on the diagrams a member with a Sportster wiring question/problem posted recently, newer bikes appear to use modules at the controls and a CAN Buss for communication. It is a network and transient voltages could affect it very, very adversely.

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    Tiny air cleaners with paper elements are a choking point.
    Restrictive baffles are, well, restrictive.
    There is more to tuning a CV carb than jetting. It is a CV, right?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    There is more to tuning a CV carb than jetting. It is a CV, right?
    Yeah it's a CV. I haven't touched any other parts of the carb beyond cleaning it. I found an 88 Sportster needle in my toolbox, which is still in the little heat seal bags the HD parts counter does so I must've bought it for a previous bike and not used it.

    Is that still a recommended inclusion on my year Dyna?

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    That needle is real fat in the mid-range,
    As it was meant for a non-accelerator pump carb.
    I doubt you'll need it with with that cam

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