Sportster Transmission Issue Question

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  • BlackCloudSalvage
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 632

    Sportster Transmission Issue Question

    Recently picked up a 1999 xl883. I haven't started digging into the issue yet or making any adjustments, or even adjusted the clutch, have only given it a short test ride down the block. Wanted to get some insight before I start into it, as transmissions aren't my strong suit.

    Here's what I noticed: When you click down into first and then start to give it gas and let the clutch out it moves forward and seems as though everything as normal, then just a second later you hear/feel what seems to be like it really getting into gear. At first I thought I left the kickstand out and thought I heard it come to a slam against the stop but that is not the case. It runs good. Doesn't seem to be an issue in any other gear, only while clicking down to just starting out in first.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
  • Dragstews
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 13741

    #2
    Possible gear dogs have rounded off some
    Perhaps the shift drum and forks have a bunch of slop ..
    Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

    Comment

    • BlackCloudSalvage
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2015
      • 632

      #3
      Thanks. Looks like i'll be going in the ole trap door! More to follow.

      Comment

      • TriNortchopz
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2017
        • 3246

        #4
        Wanted to get some insight before I start into it, as transmissions aren't my strong
        suit.
        This may help ya:

        EVO: Transmission & Final Drive
        1991-2003 5-Speed Constant Mesh Wet Clutch Transmission w/Trapdoor


        ^^^ includes a link to this thread:

        1200S 5 Speed Transmission Inspection

        "I am posting pics of my transmission tear down and any help would be appreciated. I am doing this because I have felt uneasy with the trans ever since I bought the bike. I bought an Energy One clutch to upgrade and I figure I'll find something else as I go along. The drivetrain seems to skip a beat in 1st gear half the time I pull off. But recently it has started doing it twice to three times before I get into second. It's like the belt is too loose and skips over the pulley. I have the gauge for ten pounds of pressure while checking, it is in tolerance. When I accelerate hard from standing, it lands between the gears like it's in neutral. I have adjusted the clutch a hundred times and I don't feel that was the problem. It recently started whining. It has begun clunking into 1st gear. Anyway I figured it can't hurt to look around in there..."

        If buildin' old school choppers was easy, anyone could do it... ain't nobody said it's gonna be easy...

        Comment

        • BlackCloudSalvage
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2015
          • 632

          #5
          Been reading lots of different forums and have found a few threads that seem to have the same issue as mine. In general, lots of sporty trans issues out there. Anyhow I will be digging in soon so I can make some sense of it all for myself and see what is really going on. I will post pics.

          Comment

          • crb55
            Junior Member
            • Nov 2019
            • 2

            #6
            Watch this video, just something to check while your in there https://youtu.be/NT_MxPOHw5w

            Comment

            • BlackCloudSalvage
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2015
              • 632

              #7
              Well... I got the transmission out! Actually went pretty smoothly. Nothing fought me much at all. Now I gotta read through the manual outline on inspection. Thing is it all looks pretty good but I don't really know what I'm looking for. Without a full tear down I did notice one section of abnormal wear on the mainshaft 1st gear dogs. Not too bad but they look different than the rest. I have read a bunch of people having issues and problems with there shifter detent plate and shifter pawl settings. I don't have a good enough understanding of it yet to wrap my head around why it would start to drive as if it was in first and then a second later clunk in again. I'm thinking first I will do some forum searching of what it is that makes that normal 1st gear clunk anyhow and then try to understand why it would kind of do that while already riding/starting out in first.

              Dragstews: You mention the dogs being worn or the shifter fork slop. Help me understand why either of those would possibly make for the situation I a having.

              29749

              Comment

              • BlackCloudSalvage
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 632

                #8
                Oh. One other thing i noticed be for pulling the trans. After i removed clutch assembly I shifted thru the gears a few times and noticed that the shifter detent plate would get cocked/slanted as it went around instead of just staying on the same plane. After removing the plate it seems as though one of those dowels is a bit more proud than the others. Also I noticed if I clicked down thru the gears and then went back to neutral then back to first to simulate the riding scenario, the detent plate wouldn't full seat in it's groove. It would be slightly on its lobe. Then with little rotation of the trans it would come to rest in its groove. There was also some wear on the face of that plate.

                Comment

                • JBinNC
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2018
                  • 2707

                  #9
                  I think you had best pull the shift drum and forks and look for burrs on the drum at the edges of the slots, and grooves or wear marks inside the forks. You can dress any burrs on the drum down with a file or stone. The forks should slide on the drum and be completely free, no drag.
                  Replace the clip for the detent plate when you put it back together.

                  Also you should check the output pulley for worn splines. It should fit tight on the main drive gear.

                  Jim

                  Comment

                  • BlackCloudSalvage
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 632

                    #10
                    Thanks JB. I will be getting into it further this week and will check as you said.

                    The output pulley is a brand new sprocket for chain conversion. If that's the part you are refering to.

                    Id Still like to understand. Let's say there were burrs on the drum or wear in the forks. What would it have to be doing to act the way it is? It drives forward first, so to me that means it's in gear, then u move a bit more and "clunk" like it shifted for you without pulling the clutch. What would the gears/forks be doing in that time?
                    Last edited by BlackCloudSalvage; 02-16-2020, 8:02 PM.

                    Comment

                    • JBinNC
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2018
                      • 2707

                      #11
                      It may be shifting part way into first because of a burr on the shift drum, and it may be jumping out of gear and back in as you take off from a stop. And after it jumps into gear it has completed the shift into first gear. Also, as Drags pointed out, the dogs may be rounded off on the gears causing it to jump out of gear and back in. You know the problem is in first gear so you have that part pinned down.

                      Jim

                      Comment

                      • BlackCloudSalvage
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 632

                        #12
                        Pulled the shift drum and forks off this morning. Everything looks pretty darn good. I don't see any abnormal looking wear. I even sat each fork on it's mating surface and rotated the trans around to feel it for smoothness. I slid each fork up and down the length of the drum like turning over an hour glass back and forth and they all travel the length of the drum smoothly and rotate around nicely. The 3 pins came out easily with a magnet and they and the tracks they ride in on the drum look just fine. The dogs look good too. The worst of the rounded dogs are on the mainshaft gear furthest away from the trap door, so I guess I need to peek inside the motor case to see what they are meshing with. But...even so, they only appear to have the edge slightly worn as if you were breaking the edge of a piece of metal you just fab'd up. Nothing that would cause slippage in my mind. Those dogs are deep.

                        I'm starting to think back on the detent plate and shifter I mentioned before. How it didn't fully come all the way around to rest in its groove in first gear and how it would cock at an angle because one of the pins stuck out a little further than the other. Maybe that was keeping the gear just far enough out to allow slippage once I put on the throttle.

                        Well, atleast you guys are working with me. So many other forums I've read have people saying this is perfectly normal behavior for sportsters and you have to feather the clutch and throttle etc. I've owned 5 or 6 and ridden a few more and never had this problem. I'm working to sell this bike. I would never sell it like this and pass it on to as if it's "just a sportster thing" you have to get used to. It's alarming when it happens.

                        Comment

                        • BlackCloudSalvage
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 632

                          #13
                          0217201039

                          0217201041

                          0217201040

                          Comment

                          • Dragstews
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 13741

                            #14
                            With all the forks in place on the drum and the tranny still bolted onto the door ..
                            Place in each gear and try to shake each gear ...
                            You may see a lot of lost motion from the fork pins in the drum slots or the forks to the gear engagement ...
                            Either or is not good to have ...

                            With the lost motion in play allows for low percentage of gear dog engagement ...

                            If you find that the drum slots have ware ...
                            I have a Baker shift drum that has the reverse shift pattern that is new, if needed ...
                            Take my 45 and outrun em all ..

                            Comment

                            • BlackCloudSalvage
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 632

                              #15
                              Ok. I will give that a shot. Im on 2nd shift so I'll report back tomorrow.

                              Comment

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