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  1. #1

    Default Master Cylinder Options for '67-'72 Hydraulic Drum

    Looking for master cylinder options for a '67-'72 hydraulic drum. Im in process of fabricating my own mid controls, so I can make almost anything fit. From what I've researched so far, the original Wagner master cylinder is the one to go with, but hard to find, and the repops are hit and miss. I'd be interested in looking into a more modern master cylinder if someone has a good suggestion. I'm aware that the original Wagner has a residual pressure valve, but unsure how important that is to a functioning hydraulic drum setup. Any help here would be appreciated!

  2. #2
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    A residual pressure valve is very important............

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    Quote Originally Posted by drohagan View Post
    Looking for master cylinder options for a '67-'72 hydraulic drum. Im in process of fabricating my own mid controls, so I can make almost anything fit. From what I've researched so far, the original Wagner master cylinder is the one to go with, but hard to find, and the repops are hit and miss. I'd be interested in looking into a more modern master cylinder if someone has a good suggestion. I'm aware that the original Wagner has a residual pressure valve, but unsure how important that is to a functioning hydraulic drum setup. Any help here would be appreciated!
    A residual pressure valve helps keep the shoes from backing off too much from the drum. Don't know too much about the aftermarket market master cylinders but the main problem with rebuilding the Wagner cylinders is the rebuild kits. As long as the wheel cylinders or master cylinders show no signs of bore rot through the travel of the o-ring they should be able to take a quick hone and re-build.
    The problem with the master rebuild kits is not a weak spring as I have read about and most suspect ( the oem Wagner spring is actually lighter duty ) but either the size of the 0-ring or how the rod contacts and pushes the piston it rides upon. The problem people are having are that the piston is not returning ( hence the weak aftermarket spring theory )
    I have used and compared stock Wagner rebuild kit components to the aftermarket rebuild kits and taken pictures and planned to do a tech article I never got around to. I have also directly replaced the aftermarket with the OEM Wagner and had it work properly.
    For now anyway here are the Wagner rebuild kit numbers.

    Master cylinder# FE-24119
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    1958-1962 Wheel cylinder kit
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    1963-1972 Wheel Cylinder kit
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    Last edited by 47str8leg; 02-03-2020 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Does anyone put stainless sleeves in old Wagner castings? It's common on cars and Nortons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 47str8leg View Post
    1958-1962 Wheel cylinder kit
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    I have a 1971 FLH that I installed an HD sidecar onto.
    The frame and brake drum is vintage 1960 HD.
    Do you know if the sidecar wheel cylinder kit would be the same as the one used for the bike within the designated year span?

    Thanks for the info, some items I am going to look for to keep on the shelf, you never know when they might be needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Does anyone put stainless sleeves in old Wagner castings? It's common on cars and Nortons.
    I don't think their would be much of a difference . Harleys wheel cylinders were most likely used on old jeeps and Nash's I believe. Some same internal parts and bore sizes were used with just a part number change for vehical identification application. A bore size is a bore size so the only thing I can see changing off the top of my head would be the sleeve length and locations of the bleeder holes in the sleeve bore.
    I have two pictures below of these service suppliers.
    Another thing to consider that I just read on an old J.J. Post is using Stainless or teflon sleeves for different applications.
    Jason McElroy ( who is a decent and knowledgeable guy ) also mentioned in that same post that his spring problem was opposite of mine , that in his rebuild kits the spring was lighter duty than the original Wagner that came out of his. This was not the case with me so I can only conclude that different aftermarket rebuild suppliers have different problems in their designs.
    That's why I stick with O.E.M.
    Tim
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    Last edited by 47str8leg; 02-03-2020 at 12:22 PM.

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    10scDust

    Dont know offhand but I would suspect it would be the same as the 58-62 drum. I can't see H.D. Manufacturing a different set up just for the sidecar , perhaps a proportioning valve to regulate the pressure applied to it. All you really need though is the part number off the wheel cylinder if you have it.
    Last edited by 47str8leg; 02-03-2020 at 9:18 AM.

  8. #8

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    Thanks for all the help! I found an original Wagner master cylinder in good condition on eBay and purchased it. Will keep an eye out for a Wagner F19476 rebuild kit, as there aren't any currently on eBay

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    There are two separate hones needed . Both should be available at your local auto parts store. I think I got one at pep boys and the other at a local independent . Both are made in the U.S.A.
    Never run a hone dry ( dip it in a cup of brake fluid ) and never keep it in one spot , slowly move it in and out for about 30 seconds or so then check how it is cleaning up.
    Oem brand #25032 is the two stone for the master cylinder .
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    KD 3 stone #265 is for the wheel ( slave ) cylinder.
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    Key word in these oem nos rebuild kits is "Old". I suggest sticking all rubber parts supplied in dot3 brake fluid overnight before use. Get them more pliable. There shouldn't be any signs of dry rot on the rubber beforehand or they are useless ( all of the NOS kits I have used have been fine though in this regard.).
    On the wheel cylinder kits don't try to push them onto the cylinder ends they may stretch and tear. Rather turn them inside out and let them flop back over the top of the slave cylinder. Kind of like rolling back the o-rings on an intake manifold and then letting them drop back into place to create the seal.

    Rubber end cap for the wheel cylinder. Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by 47str8leg; 02-04-2020 at 9:28 AM. Reason: Added info on proper hone use.

  10. #10

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    I've got a couple other quick add-on questions to this.
    What size/type of brake line fitting is on the Wagner master cylinder? (red arrow)
    What is the part number for the crush washer? (green arrow)

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    The outlet is 3/16 inverted flare. (The threads are 3/8-24.)

    Jim

  12. #12

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    37 degree flare?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drohagan View Post
    37 degree flare?
    Inverted flares are double flared 45 degrees, if I'm not mistaken.

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Inverted flares are double flared 45 degrees, if I'm not mistaken.

    Jim
    Jim is correct. Standard automotive flares.

  15. #15

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    Thanks!

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    Another possibility if you need/want to use something different than the Wagner-Lockheed master cylinder is to get an in line residual pressure valve from a place like Summit Racing and plumb it into your brake line somewhere.

    https://www.summitracing.com/search?...%20%20pressure

  17. #17

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    Thanks! Ended up getting a used Wagner.
    Found the part number for the master cylinder cap gasket if anyone else is looking for it. 41766-58

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