Open belt trans shaft question

[james69]

Hey guys, I have a 1980 FX with a cowpie trans. The previous owner installed a 1.5" BDL belt drive when he scraped the median and put a hole in the primary cover one night. I am currently running it without the primary cover but with the inner primary still there.

I want to remove the inner primary (along with the electric start) and I also have a bearing support plate. My question is that I also have a rebuilt short shaft ratchet top trans that I bought about a year ago for another project that never fully materialized (buy a titled, running, complete bike people!). Is it just a direct swap between the two transmissions using the bearing support plate with an open belt set up? Do the length of the shafts matter? This is a stock swing arm frame that I intend to have as a kick only bike. Thanks for any insight and Merry Christmas

[JBinNC]

No, you cannot replace your transmission with a short shaft version. Your primary drive will not line up. You can remove the inner primary, add the bearing support, and have a fully open primary drive.

If the ratchet top transmission has the electric start inner primary boss, with 4 studs, you could swap in the alternator length mainshaft, use the bearing support, and then swap it into your bike.

Jim

[james69]

Thanks a lot Jim, just what I needed to learn. Thanks again!

[james69]

Jim, or anyone else reading: I have this belt drive set up: http://beltdrives.com/products/close...ead/47-31-se-5



I've been doing some reading about the idler bearing kit (the belt tensioner bit?) , I initially thought I could just ditch it and run it however I came across this thread on chopcult: http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48255

To close this thread out in case others search for it in the future...

I called BDL and they said that 99 tooth 11mm 47-31 belt drives are designed to run with some slack inside of a primary that has an idler pulley. To run a BDL in a swingarm frame that's open the 8mm is the best choice. 61 tooth rear and 41 tooth front with a 132 tooth belt.

SO now I am not so sure that I can ditch the idler/tension piece or not with my set up. If I can't I was thinking maybe I would still take off the inner primary but cut it down to remove the electric start part but keep it intact in a way to keep using the idler piece if required. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bn...&index=22&t=0s

Any advice? This is my first big twin so I am learning every day haha. Thanks!!

[Tattooo]

Any advice? This is my first big twin so I am learning every day haha. Thanks!!

I think you need to slow down and think about what you want in the end........... Rather than just start taking things off without knowing why or thinking it through.........

In other words what the hell are you wanting to do and why??????? ha ha

[james69]

Sure thing, I would like a fully open belt primary. kick only. in my swingarm shovel frame. I haven't removed anything yet other than the outer primary that had a big hole in it from the previous owner.

I am going to stick with the cowpie trans and keep the ratchet top for another time. I just don't know if I can run the current set up I have without that idler bearing piece. However from Odyssey's experience I believe that it is needed unless I want to switch to a 8mm belt.

[Tattooo]

Sure thing, I would like a fully open belt primary. kick only. in my swingarm shovel frame. I haven't removed anything yet other than the outer primary that had a big hole in it from the previous owner.

I am going to stick with the cowpie trans and keep the ratchet top for another time. I just don't know if I can run the current set up I have without that idler bearing piece. However from Odyssey's experience I believe that it is needed unless I want to switch to a 8mm belt.

Cool, That's sounds kinda like a plain.........

Since it's a cow pie trans it's kick and electric now right???? When you go riding as it is now you ONLY kick start your bike everytime??? How does it start with the kicker now....... What kind of ignition system do you have???

Your going to need the idler or a shorter belt or swap to a different belt drive setup........... Plus your going to need an adjuster plate for your trans.....

It's not as easy as just taking a few things off and your good to go..............

[james69]

Yes my bike is kick and electric start right now. I do only kick start the bike every time. It has no problems starting up in 1-3 kicks. It has points. The previous owner who was also the original owner of the bike swapped it to points and seemed to have the carb dialed in!

Thanks Tattoo, that seems like the conclusion I am coming to after more research. The idler piece for the belt drive threw me off as I have never seen one before. I don't really want to swap to a different belt set up so at this point so I will just run what I have! I figured it wouldn't be as easy as taking off a few things and running it but you know what they say.. i'm young, dumb and full of cum! Cheers man

[Tater66]

With the inner primary off perhaps an idler support bracket could be made that bolts to inner primary mounts.

Just a thought.

[JBinNC]

I will add, don't cut up that inner primary! Good factory ones are getting scarce.

I run a Primo alternator cover and bearing support on my FXE, and those two parts are made so a motor plate between motor and transmission is just a flat plate, no offsets. I made one by copy punching the bolt holes from an inner primary. You could do the same, and have a place to mount the idler pulley. The motor plate keeps the transmission in the right place. (I made mine so I could mount mid pegs.)

Jim

[Tattooo]

Yes my bike is kick and electric start right now. I do only kick start the bike every time. It has no problems starting up in 1-3 kicks. It has points. The previous owner who was also the original owner of the bike swapped it to points and seemed to have the carb dialed in!

Thanks Tattoo, that seems like the conclusion I am coming to after more research. The idler piece for the belt drive threw me off as I have never seen one before. I don't really want to swap to a different belt set up so at this point so I will just run what I have! I figured it wouldn't be as easy as taking off a few things and running it but you know what they say.. i'm young, dumb and full of cum! Cheers man

It sounds like your on the right track...... And you are answering all of my questions...... Thank you.......... That's how you learn and your smart enough to listen.....

I tend to ask what might sound like odd ball questions but I do that for a reason.......

Your doing just fine......... Don't get ahead of yourself and keep asking questions............

Also listen to Jim and DON'T cut up your inner or outer primary.......... You can thank him later............

[farmall]

Save all your electric start parts after cleaning, oiling and wrapping 'em up nicely. (Cling wrap is awesome.) Mine came back out decades later when a shit kicker ratchet (if yours ever wears out, buy Baker!) stripped and I vowed never to be down for a sore knee. (Be glad it's not a Norton. The stories from gummers who couldn't be arsed to fit an Alton or CNW e-start before they got gimped because Norton starter pawl design is junk are pitiful to read.)

Your local metal supplier can sell you some aluminum plate or if there ain't one, look online.

Ratchet tops are pretty but a non-worn out cowpie can shift fine. Mine refuse to fuck up so I leave them be. (I post this so often I think I scared them!) If one shits the bed the replacement will be a Softail five speed including primary drive. It's easy to leave the starter motor off and run a blanking plate if desired, and they shift nicely. If you decide you want a six speed conversion those are dead easy to install. Save the ratchet top though since they'll always be in demand and you'll likely build more Harleys.

[james69]

I will add, don't cut up that inner primary! Good factory ones are getting scarce.

I run a Primo alternator cover and bearing support on my FXE, and those two parts are made so a motor plate between motor and transmission is just a flat plate, no offsets. I made one by copy punching the bolt holes from an inner primary. You could do the same, and have a place to mount the idler pulley. The motor plate keeps the transmission in the right place. (I made mine so I could mount mid pegs.)

Jim

That's a good idea. I will probably end up going this route. Saves my inner primary as well because you're right.. they aint making anymore of these. Thanks!

It sounds like your on the right track...... And you are answering all of my questions...... Thank you.......... That's how you learn and your smart enough to listen.....

I tend to ask what might sound like odd ball questions but I do that for a reason.......

Your doing just fine......... Don't get ahead of yourself and keep asking questions............

Also listen to Jim and DON'T cut up your inner or outer primary.......... You can thank him later............

Yeah man, you're welcome! It helps me alot to talk (in this case type) things through with people so I appreciate the questions. I will keep it slow - i've got all winter to dial this in! Will definitely save my inner primary now from cutting it up

[james69]

Save all your electric start parts after cleaning, oiling and wrapping 'em up nicely. (Cling wrap is awesome.) Mine came back out decades later when a shit kicker ratchet (if yours ever wears out, buy Baker!) stripped and I vowed never to be down for a sore knee. (Be glad it's not a Norton. The stories from gummers who couldn't be arsed to fit an Alton or CNW e-start before they got gimped because Norton starter pawl design is junk are pitiful to read.)

Your local metal supplier can sell you some aluminum plate or if there ain't one, look online.

Ratchet tops are pretty but a non-worn out cowpie can shift fine. Mine refuse to fuck up so I leave them be. (I post this so often I think I scared them!) If one shits the bed the replacement will be a Softail five speed including primary drive. It's easy to leave the starter motor off and run a blanking plate if desired, and they shift nicely. If you decide you want a six speed conversion those are dead easy to install. Save the ratchet top though since they'll always be in demand and you'll likely build more Harleys.

Thanks Farmall, the plan is to save my electric start and shelf it. I have the original chain drive set up as well from the original owner in a box that I plan to keep as well just in case. After really thinking it through I might as well just keep running the cowpie and save the ratchet top for another time. Plus it's nice to have the parts on hand when you need them rather than to be looking for them with buying eyes $$$.

[Dragstews]

This would make your quest easy ....