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  1. #1
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    Default Ratchet Top Teardown

    I have 192 miles on this transmission. Fully rebuilt new everything.

    Double lip seal on 4th gear along with a o ring spacer. Its leaking pretty bad. It left a 12x6 oil puddle after a ride today in 30 minutes. I ran my finger in it and there was a little silver in it. Not like metalic paint silver but black sludge with microscopic glitter. Then a neodymium magnet which didn't pick up any significant metal. The transmission has a quart of 75W-90 GL-4 in it. If I open the set screw on the kicker cover while the bike is upright some comes out the hole. A bit of oil is leaking out of the kicker shaft hole. I checked the vent screw while riding and it was not obstructed. It's not doing this when I let the bike sit for extended periods. I had a puddle on Friday and I cleaned it up. And there wasn't a puddle significant enough for me to remember today before I rode.

    The speedometer is working then not working. I tested it by spinning the cable attached solely to the spedo. It works. Putting the bike in gear jacked up and using the kicker and the cable turns in all four gears. Dumped a ton of lithium spray into the cable and re-assembled it. Put it all together and I get nothing until I hit 45-50 then it jumps to 45. I took it up to 75 and it continued to work.

    The thing that really gets me though is this horrible howl in third gear. It starts at the very top end of 2nd continues into 3rd and goes away at the start of 4th. I had to run a high pass filter and amplify it just to pickup the sound off video.




    The transmission is coming out of the frame this week when my new throw-out bearing kit comes. I don't remember this rod having a taper for a witch hat bearing.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Given this set of problems what specific things do I need to look for? Are spedo drive gears this much trouble? Should I just yank out the spedo drive gear and run without? Is the transmission overfilled? Is the 3rd gear howl part of the break in?

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
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    It sounds to me like you need to pull the trans and have it set up by someone that knows how to rebuild a trans......... and that's to much oil............

    Also has the Speedo ever worked correctly????????? That jumping around problem sounds like the speedo to me not the trans......
    Last edited by Tattooo; 12-23-2019 at 7:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbbandonZK View Post
    I don't remember this rod having a taper for a witch hat bearing.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Are you sure it had a witches hat bearing???????? It's hard to see but it looks like that rod had a keeper clip on the end........ Or it's boogerd up one.........

  4. #4

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    A transmission with "new everything " should not leak or howl, if good parts were used, and the assembly was by a competent human.
    A quart of oil is too much, 24 oz. is the proper amount.
    Aftermarket speedo drive parts are kind of hit or miss in my experience. The square drive for the cable is sometimes a problem.
    That pushrod should have a taper; a shallower angle if it's factory parts.
    Third gears in four speeds do whine sometimes, but with all new parts I would expect it to run quiet.
    Looks like you will be going through it again. Good luck with it.

    Jim

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    Here is a second gear pull into 3rd from a stop light. The spedo worked I only installed it a month ago. I used a witch hat conversion kit.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AbbandonZK View Post
    The spedo worked I only installed it a month ago. I used a witch hat conversion kit.

    Now were getting more info...........

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    I wish I knew more about my Transmission. It is the one part of the bike I haven't delved into yet.

    But generally speaking - Gear whine is common, especially when mating unevenly worn, used gears. But it is a whine. It is noticeable and noticeably changes with load and isn't particularly dangerous. It can dissipate somewhat with time.

    I can't really hear yours well, but what I think I hear there sounds like a grind. This is bad. Combined with the metal and the recent 'rebuild' would cause me to remove and inspect the unit.

    In other vehicles third is generally straight through, so a whine there would be a particular concern. (Because there isn't a lot of gear train action to whine.) It can be a safety issue in lightweight vehicles like a motorcycle.

    A 1/2 ton truck weighs enough that if you have a major problem it will just break components, including the case, before it causes you much trouble and is typically only dangerous on a slick road. But smaller vehicles can become dangerous if the trans comes apart.

    Example: A local builder here screwed up a manual transmission in a jeep once and it seized hard enough to lock the rear wheel of the vehicle and spin it out of control. For this reason, I would inspect it and stop screwing around with it.

    Good luck. Post what you find. I'm curious now.

    Last edited by confab; 12-23-2019 at 9:38 AM.

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    Don't know but found this:

    Hard Shifting And Oil Leaks - Ratchet Top Tune Up - Tech STC

    Smooth Shifting Four-Speed
    https://www.streetchopperweb.com/har...ne-up-tech-stc


    and the part 1 of the above:


    Inspecting A 1975 Harley-Davidson - Four-Speed Inspection

    Checking For Leaks & Smoothness

    https://www.streetchopperweb.com/ins...eed-inspection
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 12-23-2019 at 9:36 AM.

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    Proper rod for that large throw out bearing.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by 47str8leg View Post
    Proper rod for that large throw out bearing.
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    That's an earlier one. The later ones did not have the small tip on the end.

    Jim

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    I got the clutch off and the spocket nut was loose, held only by the lock washer. Its leaking out of the main drive gear seal. The o ring spacer and double lip seal are fine. A caged roller on the countershaft failed and the countershaft cluster ate the spedo drive gear, the bushings for the countershaft and the counter shaft itself. The throwout bearing is fine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails thumbnail_IMG_8471.jpg   thumbnail_IMG_8474.jpg   thumbnail_IMG_8475.jpg   thumbnail_IMG_8481.jpg   thumbnail_IMG_8480.jpg  


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    Holy Horse Biscuits .. Batman ... !!

    A word about the kick starter clutch gear ... They have a diff. O.D. for the witch hat throw out bearing ...

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    OK the manual, time, the right measuring tools, and this video will get you where you need to be.



    It reminds me of an Army training film, but I think it was just someone who knows the style.

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    Sorry about your loss, bro.. But I'm glad you found it.

    That howl makes sense if Harley is conventional construction.

    Third is normally locked straight through and the counter is unloaded and floats. And that was when it was letting you know something is wrong.


    Good luck..

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbbandonZK View Post
    The throwout bearing is fine.

    LOL Hell sure it is...... It's hard to break it with a hammer.............

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    I'm glad you found the problem..........

    Now it's time to start buying new parts all over again................ Because most of that stuff is useless now....

  17. #17

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    Now you need to find the answer to the question of why did that c'shaft bearing fail? Those things are dead reliable and have a very long service life. The installation is suspect in my mind. What say you?

    Here's a tip:

    Those bearings come packed with an oil that can harden and prevent the rollers from rolling. I spend a good bit of time on some of them, out of the package, to be sure the rollers move. Penetrating oil seems to work best to free them, followed by some assembly lube of course.

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Now you need to find the answer to the question of why did that c'shaft bearing fail? Those things are dead reliable and have a very long service life. The installation is suspect in my mind. What say you?

    Here's a tip:

    Those bearings come packed with an oil that can harden and prevent the rollers from rolling. I spend a good bit of time on some of them, out of the package, to be sure the rollers move. Penetrating oil seems to work best to free them, followed by some assembly lube of course.

    Jim
    Yup, I ordered two new bearings just a few months ago when I rebuilt my 4 speed and one of them was pretty hard to turn, I cleaned it out with some brake cleaner and used some assembly lube and got it nice a free. Also when you replace them, make sure you only press on the side of the bearing with the writing on it.

    Jake

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    Where are you guys ordering these bearings from Eastern ? Tedds ?

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    AbbandonZK, how much motor are you running? A friend has a STD shovelhead that he recently built. It has about 90 hp and 90+ torque lbs. His clutch was upgraded to a Rivera but the tranny was running fine so he decided to leave it be. Not any more like yours!

    Do you think you were too powerful motor wise?
    What do you thinkthe limit is as far as power goes for a rotary top?
    Last edited by tomsoftail; 12-25-2019 at 8:10 PM. Reason: Forgot question

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