Yet another question about frames and titles...

[irishlord99]

I have searched around this site and others to see if I can find an answer to my specific situation, but I haven't been able to find anything so here goes...

First off, I live in Maine where a motorcycle over 25 years old can be purchased and registered with nothing but a bill of sale.

I have a frame I picked up a while back because it was cheap, seemed well made and easily adaptable.... and I had no fucking clue about the rules and regs surrounding bikes built from parts. I have a bill of sale only for the frame, the owner did not have a title.

The frame is a custom-made job from a now defunct manufacturer out of New Jersey called C&J Custom Cycles. The frame has a number on the neck and a manufacturer's sticker on the spine. I've managed to find a few old adds that appeared in old bike mags, one of the adds states "Serial number and Title with every frame."

I'm not sure which model this frame was built for, but I suspect it was for a BSA, Norton, or Triumph.

So supposedly the frame was originally purchased with a title, but I don't have it. Would that title be linked to a specific model of bike, or just registered as a titled frame? Would the title they talk about in the ad be the same as an MSO, or different? Am I able to title just the frame and build off of that, or do I need to have the originally intended model of donor engine in the frame for everything to be legit?

In other words, if the frame was originally for a Triumph, and I outfit it with a Kawasaki engine, can I still register the bike as a Kawasaki using the number on the neck?

Ideally, I like to either retrofit this frame for some other engine, or sell the frame altogether.

Clear as mud? Any help is much appreciated.

[farmall]

It can't have been originally purchased with a title, just an MSO or bill of sale depending on year. What your produce will not be the brand of engine you use because you produced it and title passes with frame on Kawasaki etc. but Maine may be loose in that respect which is cool.

I would call it a C&J since that lets you do whatever with the frame while calling it an existing brand doesn't and the numbers wouldn't match brand records, but your DMV can advise.

Interesting they lasted as late as 2010. They were in business at least since the late 1970s (I'm from Jersey) and North Jersey got extremely expensive to operate in. The couple of frames I saw were well made.

Post side pics of the frame so we can better guess what it fits. Those pictured are for Japanese four cylinder engines.

[irishlord99]

That makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. Don't know why I didn't think to do that... forest for the trees I guess. Here's a side view of it. It's buried right now in the shop, so I can't get a cleaner shot of it at the moment. Those lower, narrow mounting tabs are what's got me thinking BSA, but I'm far from an expert on old british bikes.

Thanks for all the help!

[farmall]

Looks like it's for rice to me but there's room for anything. It should make you a solid machine.

Easy way to mock up motor plates is plywood or masonite. Other easy way is cut some flat bar strips and drill the ends then bolt using one boss on engine and one on frame so you can move the engine somewhat while keeping it from tipping. Once aligned you can "fill in the blanks" with engine mount plates.

Extra cool is mount plates don't commit you forever to one engine! You can experiment. Stuff like peg mounts (Dyna pegs bolt to blocks which are easy to cut, drill and tap) can be set based on your body then you can bolt any sort of peg which works to them. Ditto exhaust mount blocks.

Does Maine generate a vehicle title for you if you request one after registering and what does Maine require to register a vehicle besides bill of sale? I'm curious since legit ways to title old rides are limited elsewhere.

[golfish]

That's a good looking frame OP

[irishlord99]

Looks like it's for rice to me but there's room for anything. It should make you a solid machine.

...

Does Maine generate a vehicle title for you if you request one after registering and what does Maine require to register a vehicle besides bill of sale? I'm curious since legit ways to title old rides are limited elsewhere.

Sorry for the delayed response.

I believe that the State of Maine will produce a title if you request one, but I've never gone through the process. I've registered bikes and gotten plates before with nothing but a bill of sale, as long as the bike is over 25 years old.

I don't even go through the actual BMV, but instead am able to go down to my town clerk to register and get a plate. Doing that will only get you standard plates, however, and if one wants to avoid the state inspection then one must go to the actual BMV and register to get antique plates. I'm going to go through the whole process in the spring with a Yamaha I'm building now. When I do I'll get back to you about the process of getting a title.

As for mount plates... that has been my line of thought as well. I actually work as a CNC programmer at a facility that just bought a new waterjet, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pattern something with plywood, draw it up in CAD, and "print" it out on the waterjet. We'll see...

[docmel]

"So supposedly the frame was originally purchased with a title, but I don't have it. Would that title be linked to a specific model of bike, or just registered as a titled frame? Would the title they talk about in the ad be the same as an MSO, or different? Am I able to title just the frame and build off of that, or do I need to have the originally intended model of donor engine in the frame for everything to be legit?"

Having built a few bikes from MSO's, etc in the state of North Karolina, I found out that you need to talk directly to the folks at DMV, or whomever in your state dictates the rules and regulations on what you are talking about. In NC it was huge PIA. Check this out: (Its been awhile since my last NC build, so some things may have changed)

1. Show proof of MSO
2. Have receipts for every major component of the build
3. Build the bike
4. Trailer the built bike to the local State Trooper office where the local State Patrol investigator will inspect the bike (In one case the asshole actually scraped the paint off the neck boss on the frame to ensure there were no painted over numbers). He was smiling the entire time
5. Trailer bike back home while the inspector fills out paperwork for a state issued VIN for the neck
6. Buy bonded insurance (Which protects the state in case the bike ever comes back with stolen parts so the state is protected if the bike ever does show up that is was stolen prior to the state issuing the VIN and title), back then it was maybe $200, one time payment) bring forms and proof of bonded insurance back to the inspector
7. Last pile of paperwork is completed by inspector
8. After a wait, you will get your state issued vin plate and title paperwork: The fucking plate was about 30 numbers long: It started with the existing motor vin and then had like 10 state issued digits after that. it was bright steel colored and about 5 inches long
9. Go to DMV and apply for title, registration (if you are gonna ride it), pay the fees
10 Last step was you have to take the titled bike back to the inspector in 30 days after receiving the VIN plate so he can inspect the plate was mounted on the bike, show title

Bottom line, get with your state and find out, in detail, the steps required to get your bike titled. It will save you time/trips, and serious aggravation/. Be prepared to deal with bueracracy and attitudes from the DMV and the state as your progress. Also be [pre[pared for different state employees telling you different things as you go along

Don't forget to talk to your local scooter building business if you have one nearby. They can lead you in the right direction, but remember. He don't work for the state, and things change

Do this now before you spend anymore money or time on your bike. Be sure your existing paperwork, or lack thereofm if that's the case, will meet whathe states wants