Xs650 clutch pushrod stuck

[beer9000]

so I'm getting painfully near the end of my first full build, just finished the wiring and moving on to the foot clutch. I ordered the modded worm gear from jumpstreet customs, and that part of the install seems to have gone pretty smooth, the worm gear rotates fine.

when I went to put the cover with the new worm back on, there's maybe about a centimeter gap between the lower case and the cover.. the worm gear and the pushrod seem to be lining up, but won't budge.. figured I'd put all the bolts back in to see if that'd hold it together, but once I got them all tightened, it felt as if there was too much friction between the worm gear and the pushrod, the clutch wouldn't move at all.

so, it seems to me like the problem is that some component of the pushrod has been misaligned, keeping it from being pushed back to engage the clutch. when I pull the nearest piece out that famous ball bearing follows it right up to the lip of the seal, so I know that's still in there, but I'm not sure exactly what's behind that, haven't been into that side of the clutch yet.

anybody had this before, stuck pushrod? Maybe just replace whatever's in there with that one piecer from mixesxs?

[TriNortchopz]

What year is your XS?
Did the clutch worked before the jumpstreet customs mod? ( https://www.jumpstreetcustom.com/pro...lutch-shifting)
Did you get instructions with the kit?
Maybe you should call the supplier.

Got a parts book?
is this what you got? (from a 1976 xs650):

https://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xs650-1976-usa_model8525/partslist/D-05.html#.XXnVWLiaXF8

EDIT:

Found this in an interesting xs650 clutch article:


"Worm…

Over the years Yamaha changed these around a little, mainly altering the pull position, the further out the point of pull the easier the action will be – leverage…the distance of cable pull is fixed so the closer it is fixed to the center of rotation the more rotation you will get and the harder the pull will be.
Early:

Mid and Late:


The final ball is held in the worm gear opening-see above. The stamping holding it in wears out and the ball drops quietly out when removing the cover – take care. Hold it in with lots of fresh grease.

Keep the worm drive clean and well lubricated. The worm housing cracks losing rotational strength, you wont always see it without pressure..."

http://www.xs650.org.au/Clutch%20Article/xs650_clutches_article.htm

[beer9000]

pretty sure it's a 1980, that's the owner's manual I got with it anyways.. the guy I bought it from was the second owner and he didn't know much about it other than that he wanted to sell it cheap. Original owner no longer walks among us, so I might have to look for some clues tomorrow.

The clutch did work perfectly before. No instructions, but it seemed pretty self explanatory. I just made sure everything was positioned like the stock setup. I'll call him tomorrow too.

I really don't think it's a 76, but I could be wrong. I know the pushrod consists of at least that smaller rod section with the one end with a smaller diameter on the kickstand side, and the ball bearing on the opposite side.

[Skjoll]

Do you have a pic of your linkage connected to the pedal and the worm gear arm? Setting it up correctly may seem obvious but I've seen too many of these foot clutch conversions where the owner didn't set the linkage angles correctly. For instance the red lines in the pic below indicate roughly how it should be set, not the way out of whack angles this person has as indicated by the yellow lines... I'm actually surprised this dude's foot clutch works but am sure it'll give up the ghost in short order.

[beer9000]

don't have the linkage setup yet, but that's extremely useful for once I get there, thanks.. the problem at this point is that when I line the cover back up with the case, the worm gear and the pushrod hit about a centimeter too soon, causing the gap between the case and the cover. Either the worm gear itself isn't seated properly, or the pushrod is somehow jammed.. I'm leaning towards the worm gear , because though I pulled the pushrod out out of curiosity after I pulled the cover for the first time, the clutch worked perfectly fine beforehand, and I can see that the bearing is still in there. Had to work a double unexpectedly today so haven't had much time to check with jumpstreet, but I'll post what I find out soon.

[beer9000]

here's some pics:
new worm gear





the pushrod bearing

[TriNortchopz]

Can see that 5/16" ball in the worm, which is good...are there two in there? 5/16" is 8 mm and you said cover is off about a centimeter.

Sprocket nut has enough clearance and is not preventing cover from fitting on all the way? Is the worm off by one spline?
This guy had some clearance trouble with that nut:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/sprocket-nut-rubbing-the-clutch-worm-gear.28345/

[beer9000]

I never touched the sprocket nut, but I checked on it and it's flush. Pushrod and the gear hit way before that nut.

I don't think there's an extra bearing in there, but I gave up trying to pull that one out for fear of losing it or damaging something else. wouldn't make much sense, as the clutch worked fine before hand, if anything that one would've fallen out leaving no bearing.
Was really hoping the worm gear was just off by a spline, but after watching this video https://youtu.be/N8EJ4oBWNe8 I'm sure that it's not.

so, to isolate the problem, I pulled the kicker side cover to see if the clutch plates moved at all when I put pressure on the pushrod just with my hand. I know when working properly they don't move very far, but they did not move at all.

gonna try to replace the pushrod. Figured out it is in fact a 1980, anybody had success with that 1-piece pushrod from mikesxs?

could really use a stroke of good luck here.. started chopping in May thinking I'd have plenty of time to get the thing back together enough to ride from Iowa to Denver for my 21st... October is fast approaching

[TriNortchopz]

Do you still have the original worm? Can you compare the original and the jumpstreet model to compare length? Do you know the length of the Mike's one piece rod? Could just grab a chunk of round stock steel (is it 5/16" same as the balls?) and use that just for testing...

[beer9000]

yep, still have the original, the splines are the same length.

so it can't be the worm, it's got to be something internal. Seems odd to me that this doesn't seem to be a problem with this bike that's ever been discussed online.. the pushrod runs from the worm to the pressure plate, and when working properly it should release the pressure on the clutch plates when the worm pushes it into the pressure plate, right? Could it be something with the pressure plate? doesn't seem like there's anything even in the opening for the pushrod that could jam it up.. bear in mind all I did was remove the left end of the pushrod, and evidently couldn't get it to go back in right. could it be the oil seal? I know those need replacing often.

[TriNortchopz]

so, to isolate the problem, I pulled the kicker side cover to see if the clutch plates moved at all when I put pressure on the pushrod just with my hand. I know when working properly they don't move very far, but they did not move at all.

Clutch plates could be stuck together.

And one guy in this 2015 thread found two 5/16" balls stuck in the worm..

Bike's been sitting, clutch is stuck

http://www.xs650.com/threads/bikes-been-sitting-clutch-is-stuck.41261/

[Skjoll]

It's been about 15 years since I last worked on an XS650 but this pic you posted doesn't look right:

There should be a small recess in the worm gear center for the pushrod to fit in yet in your pic the ball bearing that meets the pushrod is almost flush. Is there a chance that the adjusting bolt, that also holds the actuating arm, is turned in all the way?

IMO you need to back that adjusting bolt out:

...to isolate the problem, I pulled the kicker side cover to see if the clutch plates moved at all when I put pressure on the pushrod just with my hand. I know when working properly they don't move very far, but they did not move at all...

You would need quite a bit of force on the pushrod to overcome the pressure of the clutch springs... I doubt many people can do that with mere hand pressure.

[beer9000]

You were dead on Skjoll and Trinort. That bolt on the worm is adjustable, which I hadn't realized. Adjusting that solved my clearance issue. Turns out my pushrod was never "stuck" at all, I just didn't realize how much force was really necessary at the pushrod to move the plates. (that force of course is minimized at the source of whatever mechanism is being used to actuate the clutch, lever or pedal). Aaaaaand the clutch plates were indeed frozen and roached. Got a new set coming in the mail.

I guess the big takeaway here is to test the clutch immediately before messing with it, especially if it's been sitting. Had I tried to pull the lever before installing the worm, would've known the plates were frozen, wouldn't have wrongly prescribed the problem to the pushrod. (though I probably still would've been too thick-skulled to realize right away that the worm could be adjusted) Can't get much help if you don't know how to ask for it!

Thanks everyone, hope someone can get something out of this thread in the future.