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  1. #1
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    Default Kicker gears breaking often.

    So Iíve been having alot of weird issue here recently. I have a 70s 4 speed ratchet top transmission. Ive broken kicker gears any time the bike kicks back. It might kick back 1 every 40 kicks, but the bike used to catch gears, now if the bike kick backs the gears skip and one of them gets broken teeth. Its been fine going on 2 years and now im breaking them every other week. My bike was very advanced for the longest time until a recent tweak and it still would catch if a kickback happened. I just don't understand the skipping of the gears so easily whenever it used to catch. Harley has to make room for error for whenever a kickback does happen,so it doesn't break the gears every time. Ive guessed everything i can. Its not the retaining spring. the key isn't sheered down. And the bushing on the kick clutch isn't seizing and i guess it should have proper clearance to the shaft with no wiggle. Is it possible the square taper on the end of my crank shaft is worn and the gear is "pressing" too far onto it. What else is there to do? Or is the main shaft bad or out of alignment? Im running out of things. I need some enlightenment.Click image for larger version. 

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    What kind of gears are you buying??? Are they Baker or something else??

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    If they was Baker, they wouldn't be breaking .... ! ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
    If they was Baker, they wouldn't be breaking .... ! ....
    Yep that's what I was thinking..... That's why my question.........

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    Chiwanese shit gears and ratchets are garbage and those making and retailing them should be executed by famishing.

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    They were Harley Gears. The others were whatever comes from Drag specialties. I mean its like the gears don’t catch. They skip now And break almost everytime now. Before they would catch. I have a set of used Bakers as a spare. I might try them out. But it just baffles me that all this crap is happening now..

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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyChop View Post
    They were Harley Gears. The others were whatever comes from Drag specialties. I mean its like the gears don’t catch. They skip now And break almost everytime now. Before they would catch. I have a set of used Bakers as a spare. I might try them out. But it just baffles me that all this crap is happening now..
    It sounds like you have a bad clearance problem or some badly worn parts....Or both......

    Yea I know that's obvious but without checking clearances it would be very hard to help you.....

    Best of luck.....

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    It sounds like you have a bad clearance problem or some badly worn parts....Or both......
    Truth!

    Assuming good gears the only way they can break off teeth is if the total amount of slop permits the teeth to contact at the tips instead of mesh properly. That exerts excessive leverage on the tips as the gears fail to mesh. A backfire could exert enough load that worn shaft bearings could permit such separation.

    I'd check the transmission shaft runout (without gear installed) and installed gear runout using a dial indicator (mechanical dial indicators are preferable to digital for visualizing runout) and look for anything which would permit misalignment.

    That problem is so rare that me being curious I'd likely cut observation holes in the existing cover and buy another to replace it.

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    I agree with the others about aftermarket gears,garbage , but that does sound excessive. You running the stock cover ? Kicker shaft bushings worn ? Kicker arm replaced with a heavier one where that force on the kick arm returning is more than usual ?
    I like one piece kick arms in that respect, no slop and look better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Truth!

    Assuming good gears the only way they can break off teeth is if the total amount of slop permits the teeth to contact at the tips instead of mesh properly. That exerts excessive leverage on the tips as the gears fail to mesh. A backfire could exert enough load that worn shaft bearings could permit such separation.

    I'd check the transmission shaft runout (without gear installed) and installed gear runout using a dial indicator (mechanical dial indicators are preferable to digital for visualizing runout) and look for anything which would permit misalignment.

    That problem is so rare that me being curious I'd likely cut observation holes in the existing cover and buy another to replace it.
    I'm with Farmall about the slop combined with possible backfire as the cause.

  11. #11
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    but why does it kick back so often ,mine never does that

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    I don't know but wondering if the gears are the right thickness (same) and if the teeth on the gears are aligned - front to back - like is one gear meshing only on half of the teeth of the other gear... in this thread (http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44373), AndyNZ found a link to this thread: Kicker problem...questions... https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/...ad.php?t=62961 which has comments:

    "Easy check: pull the gear off and see if the bushing isn't flush with the inner and outter ends. Or two, the installed height of the kicker gear is too high. In other words, the kicker gear is proud of the kicker cover by more than the allowable (5/8"?) and it's binding on the gear. And lastly, the kicker bushings may not have been reamed square..."

    "i've had this problem before and it was the kicker gear. i found out by measuring the thickness of my old gear and the new one. i found out the new one was too thick. i ground down the new one a bit(not too much) and it's still working. going on about 10 years now."

    "...you'll have to grind a bit off the back of the gear to get the right measurement..."


    And maybe this Classic American Iron article will help you to see something with yours;
    Classic Harley ratchet top transmission, complete tear down and total rebuild
    "Here it is …as I received the tranny ,1965 OEM tranny that came with my early FL66 project..."
    "I re-use the oem kicker start gear until I find a better one,even if teeth were slightly worn,. I felt that oem even worn are far better than reproduction these days."
    http://www.caimag.com/wordpress/2015...total-rebuild/


    Click image for larger version. 

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    And ya, that kicking back...read the other day it could be advancer mechanism in need of service, (by JBinNC).
    Last edited by TriNortchopz; 06-23-2019 at 3:14 AM.

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    Here's some advice on your kicking technique.

    The broken tooth in your pic is near the bottom of the stroke. Those with experience know that when you kick the motor through, hold the kicker full down at the bottom of the stroke until the motor stops doing what it might do. The mainshaft gear is disconnected at the bottom of the stroke, same as it is at the top (rest position). That way, if the motor kicks back, or starts to run backwards, as they sometimes do when hot, the kicker mechanism is disconnected and the pedal won't bash you, and you won't break parts. Old guys know this through practical experience (that's the kind that hurts and/or costs money).

    Jim

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    And I have three big twins that I kick regularly, including a 90cu.in. stroker, and they all have import kicker parts, and the service life has been good.

    One caveat: many of the import mainshaft kick gears have a yellow brass bushing. These will not run long, and tend to run hot and cause problems. They should be replaced with a bronze bushing.

    And speaking of that, a mainshaft kick gear with a worn out bushing will contribute to the problem you are having (as well as worn kick cover bushings).

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    And I have three big twins that I kick regularly, including a 90cu.in. stroker, and they all have import kicker parts, and the service life has been good.

    One caveat: many of the import mainshaft kick gears have a yellow brass bushing. These will not run long, and tend to run hot and cause problems. They should be replaced with a bronze bushing.

    And speaking of that, a mainshaft kick gear with a worn out bushing will contribute to the problem you are having (as well as worn kick cover bushings).

    Jim
    sorry my knee says fuk dat, I buy baker or I like u reuse oem

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rene53catalina View Post
    but why does it kick back so often ,mine never does that
    Mine neither............. Hell my Pan bobber I can start with my arm...... I'm beginning to believe he has a timing problem.....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinNC View Post
    Here's some advice on your kicking technique.

    The broken tooth in your pic is near the bottom of the stroke. Those with experience know that when you kick the motor through, hold the kicker full down at the bottom of the stroke until the motor stops doing what it might do. The mainshaft gear is disconnected at the bottom of the stroke, same as it is at the top (rest position). That way, if the motor kicks back, or starts to run backwards, as they sometimes do when hot, the kicker mechanism is disconnected and the pedal won't bash you, and you won't break parts. Old guys know this through practical experience (that's the kind that hurts and/or costs money).

    ^^^^^ That's damn good info right there.......^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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