CHOP CULT HOME
Email Password
Search
  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,121

    Default Question: The Arcane Practices of Mental Health Professionals

    Talk about off topic..

    About a week ago I had a conversation I can't stop thinking about. It was with the daughter of a customer of mine and we're talking and she kind of unloaded this story (I won't bore you with an hour long recital) about how she had to see a mental health professional about these bad memories she was having.. Flashes. Dreams. Like that.

    I asked what it was and this cute young girl recites, in almost third party format, how she saw a woman die in a car accident and couldn't get the woman's face out of her mind as she died. She then told me she was found to be at fault for that accident.

    The question: What in the ever loving fuck does a mental health professional do with something like that?

    I mean, if you have someone who thinks they're Napoleon you can use logic and objective truth to convincingly demonstrate that they are not. But in this case, the objective truth is that her shitty driving killed someone and she watched it happen.

    She feels guilt, obviously. I feel for her. She's very sweet. But, objectively speaking, that woman would be alive today if she hadn't killed her.

    So.. What does her mental health pro do with something like this? She almost described it as a bystander. Like she was coached to remove herself from the objective truth and to view the incident in an almost clinical way.. Like a serial killer.

    Is this normal? I have no idea..

    People fascinate me and I always love knowing the truth of what they think and why, because it is often guarded. What they SAY and what they're actually reacting to are often completely different things.

    What do you think they did to try and help her that resulted in this flat, third party, John Wayne Gacy like, description of the incident.. And is it the right thing to do?

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Fatal accidents often cause an initial response described as 'protective rationality' . The party responsible can't cope with the gravity of what they've done , so the mind helps you convince yourself that you weren't really responsible. It's common as an initial response, but not really sustainable.

    REBT (Rational Emotive Behavioural Therapy) holds that rational beliefs can act as cognitive protective factors against post traumatic stress. There are alternatives,from obliterating yourself with drink or drugs through to other forms of therapy.

    My grandad's generation came home from a war with little in the way of therapy except talking to others who'd been there too, and the love of their friends and family. Modern therapy techniques are difficult for many to grasp, but it's worth a listen.

    Got to say, her way of recalling it would freak me out too.
    Last edited by Hoghead; 3 Weeks Ago at 4:22 AM.

  3. #3
    Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    71

    Default

    An individual reprocesses the traumatic event and creates new neural ruts that allow comfortable fit within a defined narrative, how effective, it’s hard to say on a long term scale. The event occurred, there is no changing it, so is it better to cope in unhealthy ways ie drug or alcohol abuse, panic attacks, depression, or a myriad of other negative vessels of escape or to lie to oneself until mental health is within strength to employ more effective, direct, and permanent coping mechanisms.

    I’d be lying if I said I didn’t personally look at psychology as a pseudoscience, almost 2 decades of working as a healthcare professional in emergency and various other hospital settings has forced me to deal with the many downfalls of psych treatment. It’s not to say we view all therapist as quacks but they get to put on their little song and dance when things are settled while we deal with the repercussions when the shit hits the fan and their “Shapiro’s theory” just didn’t work quite the fuck out as well as they hypothesized.

    I don’t know the answer to fixing her problem. I’ve always tended to notice that those who deal with their shit head on tend to achieve the best results versus kicking the can further down the road. There’s probably some great therapists out there, I’m personally just better at loading people up with pharmaceuticals until they don’t want to kill me or themselves and letting someone else sort it out.

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    1,026

    Default

    This hits close to home. Two of my friends had a similar event, the car hydroplaned and hit a tree on the passenger door. Passenger died immediately and the driver was physically unharmed. The driver did CPR for 20 minutes until EMS arrived, the passenger was DOA. She functions OK now. The family of the deceased forgave her and they are still close. That is probably the saving event for her.

    Shitty driving? Tires? bad roadway engineering? Whatever the cause it was accidental and that is probably the foundation that a therapist would build on. At least from that perspective you can begin to process the event without shutting yourself out of it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fetch View Post
    This hits close to home. Two of my friends had a similar event, the car hydroplaned and hit a tree on the passenger door. Passenger died immediately and the driver was physically unharmed. The driver did CPR for 20 minutes until EMS arrived, the passenger was DOA. She functions OK now. The family of the deceased forgave her and they are still close. That is probably the saving event for her.

    Shitty driving? Tires? bad roadway engineering? Whatever the cause it was accidental and that is probably the foundation that a therapist would build on. At least from that perspective you can begin to process the event without shutting yourself out of it.
    Damn right , forgiving yourself for being human and making a mistake is the foundation for recovery. If you can get the forgiveness of those who loved the one lost, good too. Neither will be easy.

  6. #6
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Good perspectives.. I've been dwelling on this. Maybe it is okay?

    I mean, if you accidentally did something that resulted in an outcome so terrible that you you aren't a functional person anymore? I guess the alternatives are suicide or some kind of positive step forward... Regardless what it is.

    More objective steps can follow that, but you have to take the first one to begin with. Even if it seems weird, maybe that is all she can do right now and the therapist knows it?

    I’d be lying if I said I didn’t personally look at psychology as a pseudoscience...
    Me too. I feel that way about all the soft "sciences" actually.

    Even to the extent that it "works" in a clinical setting with a credentialed therapist at the helm, they're the only doctor that can't fix you. The patient ends up fixing themselves, and the therapist is more of a guide or a guilt free sounding board to fling their emotions at as they work through them.

    That alone would suggest it is more art than science at its core.

  7. #7
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    265

    Default

    My wife is a "counselor" ( a couple classes from Dr that can prescribe meds) she will be a DR soon.I would say you are correct in pseudo science theory but in we have never and will never see the real data on medications because the $$$$$$$. I know lots of folks with Mental problems and yet to see medication or therapy ever help unless they truly wanted change, and had a huge support (not enabling) crew that had there back.Most meds only mask the symptoms, or numb you past caring which doesn't seem like a fix to me, but more part of keeping shit together. Every time I try a short term fix on anything it comes back 3 fold fucked up, so I try long slow true fixes.Most people are extremely lazy (this is a species thing) and won't pick up their damn bedroom let alone fix a deep seated hard to deal with ever demanding issue. I always hope for mankind, but we are just mammals that run in all direction as a genetic way to hedge our bets in life as a global specie.
    Disclaimer I'm an un educated fool and just like talking Jive

  8. #8
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Most meds only mask the symptoms, or numb you past caring which doesn't seem like a fix to me...
    Well... It is odd that you would say that. Because that is exactly what they tried first.. "Zoloft" (Possible spelling mistake?) she said..

    And, as you predicted, it caused immense problems.. Because she said she didn't give a damn about anything and made a series of terrible decisions during that period that she's still working through now.. One of them will be with her for the rest of her life.

    And yes, it sounds like an attempt at a quick fix. It backfired horribly and the long, slow, approach is the one she said helped her.

    So, maybe you should be a shrink?
    Last edited by confab; 3 Weeks Ago at 9:32 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    I was once deeply suspicious of Psychiatrists. What concerned me was a friend who seemed hooked on therapy. So I asked myself, what motivation did their shrink ever have to see them get better whilst they were still paying?
    Also as a kid I grew up in the shadow of the City's Mental Asylum, which had a bad rep....

    Recently i've spoken to a few shrinks that bucked this theory for me. Maybe I was just suckered by the fact that all three were women, and hot. Either way, I realised the whole profession has come a long way. Thankfully electroconvulsive therapy, lobotomy and being drugged to the eyeballs in a prison type environment seem to be things of the past.

    I've two colleagues who melted down so bad they were off for months and will take meds for the rest of their days, but both lead relatively happy normal lives due to the counselling they received. Long story short, there's no long term solution in a bottle, or sticking plaster solutions. Professional help can be crucial, but don't forget, you can help someone just by listening.

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    265

    Default

    Hahahaha Thats what my wife says It took me 40 years to unravel truths in my own life, I don't think I have enough time to help anyone else see through the bullshit in theirs. I saw drug deals go down and people get shot/stabbed and beat with pipes and was accessory by age 8.I had to pay attention if wanted to make it out of there.So few truths out in the world, just a lot of perspectives.Working on something is the only way to fix it but nobody has the damn service manual for Humans and the original copy has been burnt, not to mention how many sub models there are. I feel by the time we have knowledge or wisdom enough to be a positive for mankind we die. She has at least one friend(you)and millions of strangers working towards this goal of mental health, but we must stop with a one and done thought process for help.Our brilliant and beautiful brains are crafty and very individual so every time we get some data, its not applicable to anyone else(or even that same person) ever again(it seems).We lie to ourselves subcontiously and learn so fast that we can adapt and actually erase our own memory and create false ones we believe.Basically its fuckin hand to hand combat in our brains all day every day.

  11. #11
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    You can't help everyone with generalisations and platitudes, one size doesn't fit all. Help comes from strange places, you just got to be open to what helps you make sense of it. There is some common ground though in modern therapy.

    I've heard so often how it's dog-eat-dog on the streets, I hear people tell me that it's all about individual survival, i'm sure that's real for so many. You are gonna hate this , but i've been following the words of the Dalai Lama recently.
    He's right ,people are so busy chasing false truths and impossible material dreams. Hell, every wanna be gangsta may think crime will take him out of the gutter into a world like some rap music video. A friend tried this route only to find only himself left alive tending his brother's graves. I'm with the D.L. on this- I reckon the World needs more empathy, what people want so badly doesn't always make them happy.
    Last edited by Hoghead; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    265

    Default

    The D.L. has got it going on! I agree love is the only way out, but most folks don't share the love just the hate.Comic greats like Pryor, Carlin etc have shed more light on me than jesus because I'm more like them than any great creator.I used to be a hard hitting Marine, now I'm a hippie wood worker and find peace in the strangest of things Like you said. The only thing I have witnessed universally help,but on very different results would be anything that you bring life to /care for is a positive. think pitt bull and parolees, gardening, anything that is face to face with real life re connects us.It won't it won't cure a mental disease, but bring more peace in a reality check of what one needs to actually be well like food, water, shelter.I have been making myself physically touch the earth every day with my skin even in winter for a year now( don't know why it helps ) but it de stresses me. even if its a placebo I'm sticking with it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member

    Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.

    Get Adobe Flash player


    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Richard Pryor taught me to laugh at myself, seriously! He was a genius in his way.
    This whole creative thing is disappearing from our lives as we fixate on the screens in front of us. Creativity is massively therapeutic. I got told to take leave as I hadn't taken time off for nearly two years recently. A colleague said-go home and just do something you enjoy the most. I spent two weeks in my workshop with the bikes. Sorted my head out totally.

    I saw some one struggle recently with all kinds of shit he had no control over, save for the broken starter motor on his FXR. So he fixed that, and got a huge boost. Identify and fix the shit you can fix, and you'll always feel like you can cope, even if you can't fix it all.

    I hear you - caring about something is real. If someone tells me they care for nothing , i'd question it. They are fucked if they don't care for something. In my darkest days my Bull terrier was a rock for me.

    The thing that creates resistance to therapists for me is the view that they can't tell me where i'm at if they haven't been where i've been, but I now accept that they can point me at things that help.

    Inner peace is my goal now. Other people's concepts of status and material goals don't mean shit to me anymore.
    Last edited by Hoghead; 3 Weeks Ago at 1:15 PM.

Share This



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in