PanShovel lifter/block questions

[Tater66]

63 Pan engine missing heads. So 66 Shovel top going on.

Parts book list different lifter blocks for Pan or Shovel. Different pushrods as well. Book list same lifters for either.

Can Pan blocks be run with Shovel length pushrods/tubes? What about oiling the lifters ? Any oiling differences in blocks ?

Pan oil pump was a sumpim' SOB and most likely will get S&S pump.


So who can guide me thru the lifter/blocks/pushrod/tube scenario with success ? Keep in mind 63 Pan lower has outside oiler port between lifter blocks so most wacky head oiling issues are not needed.

[JBinNC]

'63s oil the tappet like any other big twin '53 - '99. Any pan or shovel tappet block will fit and function. (Evo tappet blocks will bolt on, but geometry is wrong for a pan cam.) '48 - '52 tapper blocks will fit and function, but have no oil passages for hydraulic tappets.
The shovel upper and lower pushrod tubes will fit a pan, but the keepers are shorter for a pan. For your pan/shovel, use shovel keepers. You can use cork seal style covers, or oring style, but don't mix the components, use all one or the other.
Shovel pushrods cannot be used with pan heads, because the ball end for the rocker arm is a different diameter. They will physically fit, so I have seen this ERROR in running motors. For your pan/shovel, use shovel pushrods to suit the tappet style you use.
The '63 pan case has 1/4-24 special threads for the tappet blocks, and if using the later shovel blocks that do not use pan style countersunk screws, a special screw set for the application MUST be used.

Jim

[Tater66]

Thank you ,Sir. Good info.

Lets talk oil pump for a bit. S&S has many 'kits' listed for early engines. Some are Knuck specific while other are knuck thru shovel. Different part numbers. PDF of install shows multiple main bodies and covers. I am wanting to replace sumping stocker ( I am aware of burnishing seats) for a more "reliable" set up. S&S instructions included notes about bolt-on-and go for solid lifters and drilling for hydro units. Im confused by the multiple pump bodies versus drilling case. I will be running hydros. Most likely BMO.

BTW any have BMO phone # ?

[JBinNC]

You will need the S&S kit specific to your year model. The devil is in the details. The kit instructions for modifications are to update to split oiling/end oiling and are mostly for building a motor from the cases up. It is NOT necessary to make those modifications to use the S&S pump and hydraulic tappets.

As far as I know, BMO no longer makes pan or shovel specific tappet kits. Dave has only been offering evo geometry kits. That makes cam selection for a generator motor very thin.

I think the stock style hydraulic tappet is still available from S&S, but $$$.
Jim's makes a pan or shovel specific hydraulic tappet but I have had mixed results with them. You would most certainly need to do the split oiling conversion to use them in your motor.

This stuff is NOT for the novice. I have seen these conversions and upgrades fucked up a number of times, even by reputable shops who are SUPPOSED to know what they are doing. If you are a novice, install the S&S pump with the minimum mods they call for, block the oil feeds to the tappet blocks, and run solids. That's the easiest and most foolproof approach. Otherwise, get some help from someone knowledgeable.

Jim

[Dragstews]

SHOVELHEAD EVO OILING CHROME 1966-1984 (SPECIAL ORDER)
*SPECIAL ORDER CURRENTLY IN PRODUCTION* KIT INCLUDES BLOCKS, TAPPETS, PUSH RODS, GASKETS, HARDWARE AND DETAILED INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. **CHOICE OF STANDARD OR STROKER PUSH RODS AND SPECIFY YEAR OF ENGINE CASES TO DETERMINE CORRECT HARDWARE** *Must have JIMS, S&S Shovelhead roller rocker arms and oil pump must be in good condition with adequate volume and oil pressure for this upgrade.

Top end oils from the hyd lifters, up the pushrods and into rocker arms that has been drilled ... (Evo type oil supply)
Can't use the stock rocker arms, unless you drill them and weld the entrance up...
OR .... Use Evo rocker arms that has been machined for Shovelhead boxes..
The Evo arms have a diff. ratio than The Shovel's
E-Shovel arms 1.43:1
L-Shovel ...".... 1.5:1
Evo ......... " ... 1.625:1


B-M-O Products, L.L.C
301-743-3215

[JBinNC]

SHOVELHEAD EVO OILING CHROME 1966-1984 (SPECIAL ORDER)
*SPECIAL ORDER CURRENTLY IN PRODUCTION* KIT INCLUDES BLOCKS, TAPPETS, PUSH RODS, GASKETS, HARDWARE AND DETAILED INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. **CHOICE OF STANDARD OR STROKER PUSH RODS AND SPECIFY YEAR OF ENGINE CASES TO DETERMINE CORRECT HARDWARE** *Must have JIMS, S&S Shovelhead roller rocker arms and oil pump must be in good condition with adequate volume and oil pressure for this upgrade.

Top end oils from the hyd lifters, up the pushrods and into rocker arms that has been drilled ... Can't use the stock rocker arms, unless you drill them and weld the entrance up...


B-M-O Products, L.L.C
301-743-3215

As I understand it, the above kit requires an EVO pattern cam, as I said earlier, making cam choices for generator motors thin. It's a top-shelf kit though, it just doesn't get any better.

Jim

[Dragstews]

Dave still has the kits on hand for using the Shovel base circle cams....

Many company's do makes the cams in the Evo's larger base circle for the Gen motors..
S&S, Woods, Lieneweber and Jim's to name a few .... The Evo's uses a larger tappet roller and also the tappet bore size is bigger...

In essences, the Mo-Co supersized the working components when the Evo came on line...

[JBinNC]

Dave still has the kits on hand for using the Shovel base circle cams....

Many company's do makes the cams in the Evo's larger base circle for the Gen motors..
S&S, Woods, Lieneweber and Jim's to name a few .... The Evo's uses a larger tappet roller and also the tappet bore size is bigger...

In essences, the Mo-Co supersized the working components when the Evo came on line...

Not quite as easy as that. Cam to tappet angles are different, shovel to evo, the evo angles giving a little more stable pushrod geometry. The whole works is interchangeable as a unit, cone shovel and evo. The necessity to buy a special evo pattern generator cam makes the conversion expen$ive.

Jim

[Tater66]

I had a feeling we where going down this path eventually.

I have NO intention of using roller rockers or concerns about oiling thru the pushrods. If thats the only way to get decent hydro lifters then I may stick to solids. I also prefer to NOT do Evo conversion on a Pan. Just dont seem right.

I have used BMO in a cone Shovel with great results. Far better than Jims. No need for Rollers in that engine. Obviously Genny motors are a bit different.

[Tater66]

Dragstews, got the number for BMO ? I can call them and see what the have or can make up. I had an email from them about same engine but lost it.

[Dragstews]

Dragstews, got the number for BMO ?

See post #5

If you can't get a hold of Dave at that number, let me know I have his cell number...

[Tater66]

I spent an hour on the phone with Dave. He's a wealth of information.

[Tater66]

If anyone is paying attention.....

What is the Pan outside oiler fitting size/pitch at the lifter blocks ?

While we are at it, what is the Shovel Rockerbox fitting size/pitch at the box ?


I would like to run AN hose/fittings from cases to rockerbox in a "T" configuration. Obviously have to block off rear head feed and split feed up the middle.

[JBinNC]

The shovel rocker box fittings are 1/8NPT (1/8 pipe thread). I think your case thread will be the same.

Jim

[Tater66]

Thank you, Sir.