Fast,skinny and semi-show 67 lightning

[factoryReset]

I got some clean up on the frame to do this weekend!!

[factoryReset]

Got a little bit more done today... I cleaned up the frame a good bit but still have a little bit more to clean on frame

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

That Frame looks pretty decent to me! Most A65 stock frames W/Hardtail, they look bent/sagging in the middle and few people do them right where they look decent like that. If cost is no object, I suppose buy a FM frame, but that one looks okey-dokey to me.

What is the major reason for replacing it? What does a new one do that one does not? (*If you wanted a raked out digger, then I see the point, but that could be a very sweet bobber IMHO

Now,, the 5 speed! Jeez,, I wish I could afford that kinda kit. (I nearly pulled the trigger for a Baker drivetrain 6 speed for my Buell, as I know a guy who had 2 of them for half the retail, however even 1/2 cost was very $$$$$), Now just my 2 cents here,
But depends on what ratios you spec, and I heard great things about those race boxs, But many people on Triumphs will get all kinds of excited about swapping the factory 5 speeds into a 4 speed box. The gear sets were made by Quaife, and many were brittle and broke under hard use. (in order to fit, the gears are skinnier). But on a Triumph, the final drive ratio is NOT a overdrive. Its still 1:1 where on my sporties 5th gear is like :97 over drive which is nice on the freeway.

So, you can bodge it with a high C/S & Rear sprocket combo so you have kind of an overdrive, or do a split ratio with a low 1-2 with high 3-4-5. (On a stock Triumph 650 I run a 20 tooth CS so I can easily cruise at 70 mph at a decent RPM, but still has plenty of balls off the line. Triumphs you can run as high as 23 tooth but its a dog until you get up to speed)

But the idea of the race 5 speeds in Nortons-Triumph-BSA is to keep the motor in the power band (on the boil) NOT as an overdrive. Short rod 750 Triumphs are the choice for flat trackers and road racers (74-83) and flat trackers will swap out the 5 speed for the 4 speed and road racers want the 5 speed. The motors are like tractors and dont need the 5, plus the 4 is stronger so thats the background on gearboxs.

Now BSA, is the king of ratios. There is alternate primary ratios (engine sprocket to basket) then CS to rear and then there is a number of Gear sets. There is a narrow ratio, a wide ratio and a std road bike ratio or you can mix and match and again, step the 1-2 for line launchs or run a low-high split ratio or any version in between.

The biggest issue for the motor is a A-B formula. What kind of riding will you do, and thus the motor build? THEN you can decide your gearing to maximize the motor. Maybe you have that worked out but any number of people reading this might find that useful if new to BSA.

[TriNortchopz]

There is a narrow ratio, a wide ratio and a std road bike ratio or you can mix and match and again, step the 1-2 for line launchs or run a low-high split ratio or any version in between.

Found this, which includes 'Beezabill's' suggested gearsets:
Victory Tech Papers;
BSA A50, A65 & A70 Transmission Ratios
"...For BSA 500, 650 & 750 twins the original standard 4-speed transmission ratios are good compromises for mixed street and moderate performance use, and are“staged” or“progressive” in that the engine speed loss on shifting from 1st to 2nd is higher than the loss on shifting from 2nd to 3rd, etc...The advantage to a close ratio gear-set lies in the fact that the RPM loss at very high speed is reduced, allowing extra power to accelerate above 100 mph... If the shift takes place at a speed where air resistance is high (70+ MPH), closer ratios are better; the factory “Std.” gear-set is at a disadvantage with its 12.6% RPM drop on the 3-4 shift: 7,500 RPM drops to 6,551.
The factory close-ratio gear-set loses only 9.7% on the 3-4 shift (7,500 RPM drops to 6,775), and the motor (rather than“falling off the earth”) is right in its torque curve and accelerates better...
“Beezabill” suggests...a gearbox mod that can be done to give a taller 4th gear:
1. Put 16 tooth C/R M/S 1st gear in 4th gear L/S position, replaces 17 tooth.
2. Put 22 tooth C/R M/S 3rd gear in L/S 2nd position, replaces 26 tooth.
3. Put 18 tooth C/R L/S 3rd gear in M/S 2nd position, replaces 22 tooth.
4. Put 23 tooth C/R M/S 2nd gear in L/S 3rd position, replaces 22 tooth.
5. Put 25 tooth C/R L/S 2nd gear in M/S 3rd position, replaces 26 tooth.
6. Make a 24 tooth M/S 4th gear, replaces 23 tooth.
...1st, 2nd and 3rd gear ratios slightly lower and closer together than the STD ratios. HOWEVER, it will make the jump from 3rd to 4th REAL BIG!!”
See more here:

http://www.victorylibrary.com/brit/A65-4.htm

[Nanonevol]

Britbike forum member working on an A65 shifter. Discussion here:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/764470/re-a65-shifter-prototype#Post764470

[factoryReset]

update

I thought I had a Harley front end until I pulled the triple tree and found ball bearings

[TriNortchopz]

Any markings on the lower legs or trees? What is the diameter of the tubes? what about diameter of the stem top and bottom?
A65 cup OD is 54mm (2.127") top and bottom, while bearing cone ID is 28.49mm (1.12") on one, and other is 30.14mm (1.186").
Bearings OEM numbers are: 66-4149, 65-5126 and 65-5127.

[factoryReset]

Any markings on the lower legs or trees? What is the diameter of the tubes? what about diameter of the stem top and bottom?
A65 cup OD is 54mm (2.127") top and bottom, while bearing cone ID is 28.49mm (1.12") on one, and other is 30.14mm (1.186").
Bearings OEM numbers are: 66-4149, 65-5126 and 65-5127.

On one of the sliders found sticker SHOWA 447-5; ALSO under side of the cover above headlight has a Harley P/N

[TriNortchopz]

First bike that popped up from looking for that Showa # is parts from a 1982 CM400E; base model has a TLS brake - Doug called that in post #3.
CM400 has 33mm fork tubes; same as 1970 Triumph (1.303")
- see mix and match thread here:

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51244

[TriNortchopz]

Kinda thinking about doing 0 drop and possibly 0 stretch..... factory metal works frame is probably going to happen also

Option is a 30 degree rake frame from BCS:

Stretched approximately 2" in front and 4" in the rear

http://www.britcycle.com/products/544/544800A001.htm

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

Better pix needed on the front end components. Brtish bikes USUALLY had the small ball bearings, But OIF Triumph/BSA (1971-up) Used a small dia stem and taper bearings. Commandos used a sealed wheel bearing style. Most Brit bikes can convert to a tapered bearing setup with a kit avail. from many vendors, Or if clever can make your own, however if you knock out the races for the balls, The neck cup ID area is a very odd size. Most kits use an off the shelf bearing and bearing race with a custom machined sleeve on the tapered race. (most machinists can make one with an interference fit)

Kits run about $35-40, or make your own for less. That solves the bearing issue.

Now, based on the pix, hard to tell, BUT it looks like the bottom triple tree is Harley, Looks like some I have here. Not so sure about top tree. VERY possible this is a BITSA front end (Bits O' this and that) The fork legs and sliders not too sure about.

HD typically had front ends made by Showa and Kayaba? Maybe others? HD experts can tell you. I think early forks were 33.5mm later were 35mm and late model are 39mm? (Again dont quote me on that part) Also different axles over the years on Dia. (3/4" and 1"???)
The front wheel/brake looks small bore asian bike to me. TLS but small dia, If it was a 400cc bike that makes sense to me. NUTTIN' wrong with them generally! Many also have a 2:1 speedo drive on them and can be set up to be a fantastic brake if you reshoe it with good friction materials, arc it in and adjust the TLS, and skim the drum. (You can do this with a layer of sandpaper taped to the old shoes and using a electric motor spinning the wheel while slowly applying brakes. Creates a perfect circle and full contact patch. You can do stoppies believe it or not. Most brakes are using 25% or less of contact surfaces. optimizing does wonders)

But better pix will tell the tale. Front brakes are a GOOD thing! 70% of your braking comes from the front. Been in enough Oh shits! that Id rather avoid crashing than worry about style points, but a well setup brake, can look good as well,.

[factoryReset]

Thanks guys for all your help... looks like I will be getting another front end and getting a kit from lowbrow ... Doug Ur right about the bitsa part........Y'all also got me thinking really hard about not doing 5spd....just go the beezabill way...1,2,3 close and tall 4th

[factoryReset]

...

[Dougtheinternetannoyance123]

Thanks guys for all your help... looks like I will be getting another front end and getting a kit from lowbrow ... Doug Ur right about the bitsa part........Y'all also got me thinking really hard about not doing 5spd....just go the beezabill way...1,2,3 close and tall 4th

Depends on your goals for the bike, That front end might be just dandy for many people. As for the 5 speed my intent was not talk you out of anything, Instead just give you the facts (And anyone not familiar with BritIron) so you can make an educated decision and proceed accordingly.

The racing 5 speed setups are really nice, but really suited for racing to stay in the power band. In racing the expense is justified for the end results. The question is it justified in your case for a street bike and HOW you will ride it?

I can think of many places to better spend your $$$$ and happy to tell you my opinion as I EXCEL in helping others spend their money.

When it comes to motor, ignition, fuel system, theres several ways to go, But the stock setup is not bad at all. I built one for a customer with hotted up cam and a lightened and balanced flywheel. He was shocked at how fast it was and revved like a 2 stroke dirt bike. Was loads of fun. But would I do one again like that? Only for certain types of riding,, We learned a lot on that one and while fun, Id go the other direction and all about torque on the street.

[TriNortchopz]

I almost forgot about this guy for big BSA, Triumph and Norton engines;

"Ed G Cranks (located in Toronto, Ontario) is now building building stroker crankshafts for BSA and Triumph...made from modified Norton crankshaft components and can be used for stock or racing engines. Each crankshaft uses a new, smaller flywheel that allows clearance for any camshaft lobes...combine a stroker crank with various after-market barrels. SRM sells large BSA A65 barrels and custom machines them to suit the stroke of your engine and the length or your connection rods. When combined with a stroker crank this means you may be able to build a smooth engine at over 900cc displacement..."

http://www.offsetcrank.com/stroker_cranks.html